WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

All flavors welcome.
Forum rules
Be kind.
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SethMorrow
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by SethMorrow »

richmond62 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:31 pm Re rules . . .

Just a few thoughts:

1. No commercial adverts.

2. Are we going to allow cross-posting or cross-referencing posts in the LiveCode forums?

3. Languages? After all, very shortly the whole thing will be swamped with Russian Spam.
My Opinions:

1. I don't think commercial adverts or anything of the sort should ever be a part of this project.

2. I'd be fine with posting links to LC forum posts here, but I'm not sure how well posting links to this forum would go over in Scotland.

3. Spam will probably be an issue at some point, we'll definitely need some people willing to be mods at the very least.
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

but I'm not sure how well posting links to this forum would go over in Scotland.
I am Scots (although I have lived in Bulgaria for yonks) and:

1. Aim to retire there inwith the next 5 years.

2. Favour Scots independence . . . this is where this gets relevant to the current situation . . .

Many very stupid Scotsman seem to think that the way to push and define Scots independence is by making foul remarks
about the English, and all that that realy seems to do is make the English increasingly anti-Scots and more dtermined to block
attempts at Scots independence.

As I, like a large number of Scots people, have English relatives, friends and workmates,
if I thought the ONLY way Scotland would get its independence would be by being grossly anti-English
I would be first in line to vote AGAINST Scots independence.

No we could be like those stupid Scotsmen and define OpenXtalk (or whatever name is settled on) as:

1. Everything LiveCode isn't.

and

2. By being foul about LiveCode.

This would be juvenile and almost totally unhelpful and unhealthy.

I, for one, have no desire to see LiveCode "go under", and one would hope that we can set up a healthy 'shadow' which can learn from
LiveCode, and similarly, LiveCode can learn from us.

As LiveCode have just been extremely generous and lobbed me a perpetual educational licence for 20 seats for nix it would be
churlish in the extreme to voice foulnesses: this does not mean that I will not be critical of LiveCode, but, I hope, in the spirit
of positive criticism than mad elephants in central Edinburgh.

I assume by "Scotland" you mean LiveCode-the-company. I do hope that members of this forum, members of the LiveCode forum,
and more will see the benefits of "cross-pollination" and even code-sharing. Being churlish from either end will do no-one any good at all.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

OpenXTalk wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:40 pm
richmond62 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:28 pm
I was thinking about adding a new forum for vintage xTalk/hypercard/supercard/emulation discussions, any opinions on this?
I think that this will just serve as a distraction from the main object, and we should be looking forwards not backwards.
Great point. I'll hold off on that idea.

Another thing we'll need is at least a landing page for openxtalk.org that has some info and links to the forums, etc. I can probably manage to pull something together on that front. It currently is redirecting to openxtalk.substack.com, which seemed like a good place to use as a kind of blog. If anyone has suggestions on what exactly they'd like to see at the openxtalk.org homepage, I'm all ears.
Ahhh sorry, I just saw this, after I made an xTalk implementations sub-forum. I don't want it to be a distraction from the main goal, but I think it's good to be able to talk about all xTalk implementations, not just OpenXTalk's LCC Fork. Most, if not all, of those other implementations are gone or not being updated anywhere near to level this implementation is already at. I think there's some benefits to discussing things like SuperCard or OpenXION for examples, now that that's not somewhat of a "No-No" due to commercial interests it is on certain other forums. I'm sure there are some SuperCard people out there looking for another platform to move there stuff to, since SuperCard hasn't been updated to run beyond 32bit and 10.15. SuperCard is macOS only, and I beleive they were still using Carbon APIs (Old macOS 9/Classic API). I had a SuperCard license at one point.

As for a landing page, I started using GitHub pages, but haven't had time to get back to working on that. https://paulmcclernan.github.io

Please DO NOT post links to this forum on LC's forum. I know that they don't want that. LC Mark made that quite clear. Links going in the other direction should be fine I think, and people looking to do closed source commercial development exclusively should probably be sent there since they're the best option still around for that. Could even help them survive. Perhap's the two seperate things could be cooperative at some point in the future, but not right now. They want a clean break from open-source, and don't want their customers to become confused about any support for this, now legacy code from them. They can't use any GPL3 thing we do going forward, not even bug fixes (so don't use their bug reporting system unless it relates to their product), and we can't use anything from their commercial product going forward either.
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

I would like to additionally have these rules:

No Politics unless it's somehow xTalk or generally computing related! There's more than enough of that everywhere else.

Be Nice, means don't be prejudice, bigoted, sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. etc. No "GamerGate" type nonsense allowed!
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

My previous posting here was obviously hopelessly naive in the light of this:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-l ... 65592.html

Next time anyone, at the end of a serious message with all sorts of legalese and so forth signs off with "Have Fun"
I might just be tempted to go and bust their nose.

Certainly what is going on at the moment could in no way be described as 'Fun', after all it will involve an awful lot
of unpaid work by (one hopes) an awful lot of people because of an odd decision that has every appearance of having been taken
on someone's whim, as have quite a few decisions (with the wisdom of hindsight) apparently been taken by that person
in the past.

If one "pops over" to look at Open Source ventures such as LibreOffice:

https://www.libreoffice.org/

one needs to understand that this was hived off from Apache Open Office, and is now, as far as I can tell, rather better
that Open Office. ALL references to Open Office have been purged - one can only admire the sheer donkey work involved
in doing this.

I also feel the same anent "Warmest Regards" . . .

1. 'Regards' cannot be warm.

2. At the end of a fairly pugnacious message that is just oily, smarmy what-have-ye's.

I wonder what was wrong with "sincerely": especially as "Have Fun" and "Warmest Regards" look pretty insincere. 8-)
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

This:
-
OXT1.png
OXT1.png (54.47 KiB) Viewed 80441 times
-
is super!
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

https://www.theregister.com/2021/09/06/ ... interview/

"There were some C++ developers in the community, said Miller, but "there weren't enough of those." "

Wait a moment . . . at one time Miller and Co. were boasting that LicveCode was written in LiveCode, and I can tell you
that I am NOT going to go and learn C++ (CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK), so will be trying my best to contribute to OpenXTalk
with images and stuff coded inside whatever-the-flip the name of the language is . . .

Also . . . pardon me . . . but as the Community version of LiveCode piggy-backed on the commercial variants I fail to see
why people should have been expected to contribute with skills in another programming language.

AND no one else needs to get turned off by stuff anent C++, and there is plenty of development work that can be done
inwith the language itself.
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SethMorrow
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by SethMorrow »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am This:
-
OXT1.png
-
is super!
I also think this is super, perhaps even super duper. ;)
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by susan »

just saying hello. Hello! At different times in my life I have invested pretty heavily both my time and emotional energy with hypertalk like languages, and implementatons like LiveCode. Although, I don't use it like before, I have followed the ups and downs of LiveCode and SuperCard (and for a short time Rodeo) with great interest while remaining detached. (If that makes any sense?)

I wish the board well and will give my opinion and input as time permits!
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am This:
-
OXT1.png
-
is super!
Thanks, I couldn't sleep and was feeling creative, now that it's Monday I'm regretting it, but oh well.

Also, just FYI, my rules comment about no politics wasn't directed at your Scottish Independence analogy. I don't know much about that situation other than what I've gathered from being a fan of Fish (ex-Marillion lead singer).
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by Mark »

Could we please explicitly allow the discussion of cheese pretty please? It would be a great way to distinguish ourselves from the other side.
All my statements in this forum are just an opinion and should not be taken for granted.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

Mark wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:43 pm Could we please explicitly allow the discussion of cheese pretty please? It would be a great way to distinguish ourselves from the other side.
Cheese as in "corniness" or cheese as in the stuff that's clogging my arteries?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheesy

Personally I'd like to be much less formal over here, however I would like for us to generally stay on topic.

But maybe we could have an Off-Topic section just for fun stuff?
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

I'm not sure if I could camembert the strictures about cheese.
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by susan »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:27 pm But maybe we could have an Off-Topic section just for fun stuff?
Yes please! If that means I won't have to skip over discussions about cheese in the main threads, that would be welcome.
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

susan wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 pm
OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:27 pm But maybe we could have an Off-Topic section just for fun stuff?
Yes please! If that means I won't have to skip over discussions about cheese in the main threads, that would be welcome.
Done, a completely separate top level forum.
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by susan »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:35 am Done, a completely separate top level forum.
I am blessed. Everyone with turophobia thanks you.
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

I've tried skipping over small rivers in the hills of Scotland, but I've never tried skipping over cheese. 8-)
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

susan wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:02 pm just saying hello. Hello! At different times in my life I have invested pretty heavily both my time and emotional energy with hypertalk like languages, and implementatons like LiveCode. Although, I don't use it like before, I have followed the ups and downs of LiveCode and SuperCard (and for a short time Rodeo) with great interest while remaining detached. (If that makes any sense?)

I wish the board well and will give my opinion and input as time permits!
Welcome Susan, with everything that's going on I hadn't seen this comment until now, please do stop by whenever!
I know what you mean, I've been in an on again / off again relationship with Hyper xTalk things for about 35 years (so pretty much from the beginning). A bumpy ride for sure!
Rodeo? Is that an xTalk I don't know of? Search turned up this article, it looks a bit xTalk-like but it's Python.
https://www.techleer.com/articles/375-r ... or-python/
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by susan »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:19 pm Rodeo? Is that an xTalk I don't know of?
Thanks for the welcome!

Around 2010 a couple of Revolution/xTalk luminaries developed an xTalk that worked on the cloud. Pretty cool stuff, especially for the time, but if I remember correctly there was a falling out with Runtime Revolution because of licensing issues. As far as I know, except for a couple of hints in the official forums, most traces of it has been expunged from memory.

Image

You can find remnants here:

http://web.archive.org/web/201104150126 ... d-workflow
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

susan wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:55 am
OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:19 pm Rodeo? Is that an xTalk I don't know of?
Thanks for the welcome!

Around 2010 a couple of Revolution/xTalk luminaries developed an xTalk that worked on the cloud. Pretty cool stuff, especially for the time, but if I remember correctly there was a falling out with Runtime Revolution because of licensing issues. As far as I know, except for a couple of hints in the official forums, most traces of it has been expunged from memory.

Image

You can find remnants here:

http://web.archive.org/web/201104150126 ... d-workflow
Thanks! I'm interested in all of the little pieces of xTalk wreckage history. I'm thinking of writing something like a historical essay when things settle down later!
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