Mobile IDE

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richmond62
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Mobile IDE

Post by richmond62 »

SShot 2022-07-03 at 19.33.10.png
SShot 2022-07-03 at 19.33.10.png (32.39 KiB) Viewed 1115 times
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PRESUMABLY this sort of thing could be hived off from a community version, nicht?

"Ever wanted to edit your app on the go? Now you can. With this nifty plugin, you can run a cut down version of the LiveCode IDE on your phone or tablet."

https://livecode.com/megabundle/whats-in-it/
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overclockedmind
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by overclockedmind »

I'm unclear; you mean as in "we could also do that?"
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richmond62
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by richmond62 »

Yes, that is what I mean.

and this here is just a load of rubbish so my message is long enough to post
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by overclockedmind »

As far as I know, Apple won't allow open source; and if they're paying attention, it's been open source whether it is us, or it is LC. We exist because LC tried to do what I believe they cannot do. That would be the first complaint that I would file with them. It's a kamikaze move, but their stupid rules basically stipulate we aren't allowed anyway, so we lose nothing we wouldn't have lost already.

Google Android allows open source software, so we have every right that they do in my book and more. [They have their new features for the upper hand; we have being OSS as ours.]

Furthermore, I think that we (the execution needs to be correct) need to get the FSF involved; some of the software being behind a paywall, that they left the community (literally) and then released additional features and functionality, et cetera and so on. I also don't think we should use anything beyond that paywall, whether or not we can access it. We need to operate "cleanly" so the contrast can be properly presented. IANAL but we could present a case to them.

Then again, there's always the "screw you, we're gonna outshine you instead" move.
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by richmond62 »

By 'Apple' I assume you mean iOS.

As its the rich kids round these parts who have iPhones,
I do not really care.

As Android is the mobile system 'for the rest of us', I do care, and think some sort of programmable IDE for
cheapo tablets would be fantastic.

LC may be guilty of locking up Open Source stuff behind a paywall . . .

However they wouldn't be the first lot to abuse Open Source . . .

Of course, someone more tactful than me, could write and ask them for access to any Open Source code blocked at present . . . stating, in the most diplomatic terms, that were they to release that code we'd splash a 'big, fat thankyou' on the front page of the OXT website, and they (for a change) would smell of roses.
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by richmond62 »

Mind you, as our heroic developer seems to have got very badly distracted from what he initially set out to do (produce a functional equivalent of LC 9.6.3 wthout the LiveCode references everywhere), this is a discussion that should be put on hold.

In 12 days time I will be teaching LiveCode to kiddos for the plain and simple reason that there is NO functional, cross-platform OXT package.

And HTFF (How The Flying F***) I am going to explain to 9-12 year olds the situation re downloading what looks like STALE software ftom the internet archive escapes me: "Oh, look, a software vulture perched on that roof over there."
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:17 am
LC may be guilty of locking up Open Source stuff behind a paywall . . .

However they wouldn't be the first lot to abuse Open Source . . .

That's not quite accurate wording. What is behind an LC password wall is the pre-compiled binaries for FOSS libraries required to build from the engines from source, which you could compile to binaries from those FOSS source codes yourself. But thanks to a community member I now have those required 'pre-builts' files. I would actually like to remove the need for those and make all non-base xTalk syntax things (like revSpeak for example) into Builder Extensions, which are much easier to update without needing to recompile the engines binaries.


A lot (all?) of that 'Mega-bundle' isn't even from the LC team. It's a bunch of 3rd party things from people (like Tom Glod for example) that have been part of the LC community for a long time. Even that mobile IDE-lite, which is certainly 'doable' for OXT on Android ( possibly IOS too, Apple AppStore does NOT have a ban on open-source per-say, but it is very restrictive for apps using non-Apple libraries / APIs), was created by a community member (discussed it on FaceBook when he was first working on it, not very long ago).

I see from that link that LC has purchased Ferris Logic's PolyGrid out-right... a bit sad because one of those two guys had mentioned to me about maybe making that open-source (I have still have the email) after the Community Edition was killed. But good for them! Some really nice work there and they totally deserved to make some money from it! I wonder if they've moved on to greener pastures?
heroic developer seems to have got very badly distracted from what he initially set out to do (produce a functional equivalent of LC 9.6.3 wthout the LiveCode references everywhere)
I'm not heroic nor am I a professional developer. I'm a graphic artist that's slowly been learning to be a developer for the past 30+ years.

I'm also not at distracted, just very busy with the day job, and a lot other RL things. The goal of a "equivalent of LC 9.6.3 wthout the LiveCode references everywhere" has been 98-99% met ( without recompiling the engines) as far as I can tell.
I always wanted to fix some of the problems, fulfill some unfinished promises, and add a few extras (like 'PlaySentence' music composition). I did a bunch of fixes, things like the Syntax dictionary stack working on Linux 64bit, HyperCard stacks no longer crashes the engine, cross-platform compiling Builder extensions works even if there's an invisible ._'AppleDouble'.lcb file in the same directory (I see some recent LC activity on that bug report finally, it is good they seem to be going after a lot of bugs recently), Extension Builder Stack has a few more fixes too; it loads Sample stacks properly now and displays SVG Icon previews properly. But there's a few more things I'd really like to fix such as the wonkiness of palettes with revMenuBar's toolbar and IDE 'desktop' positioning (which seems to base certain things on the position of revMenuBars 'Toolbar') on macOS. These aren't distractions in my book, they're things that should never have been neglected to begin with.

There's some easy things people could help with. For example I'd like to expand the dictionary significanty, adding glossary entrees to make it more useful as a general computer science reference (maybe even including some 'hacker slang' like this relevant 'syntactical sugar' entry in the 'Jargon File' http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/S/ ... sugar.html) . Those .LCDOC files that the Dictionary is built from are just markdown text, you can edit them with plain old text editor.

It's my birthday today and then I'm on 'holiday' but I have my laptop and will still be working on things as much as I can (it's a mission that I'm enjoying, doing that on vacation is something I like to do, not 'heroism' driving me).

I think a release on July 29th would be a good target, that's exactly one year from the last release official LCC (9.6.3).
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overclockedmind
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by overclockedmind »

Are we *certain* these things that we've *gotten ahold of* going to cause no problems? I need to re-read this whole thing a few times...
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Re: Mobile IDE

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

^ Sorry I edited your post instead of quoting it by accident.

I'm sure there's no attempt to sabotage if that's what you mean?
These prebuilt files came from a well respected community member.

I understand that not everyone is going to want to learn C++, Objective C, or even Extension Builder syntax and things like that in order to contribute to OXT. Lot's of people in this community seem to have it in their heads that they can't do it (personally I don't think it's all that big of a leap to go from xTalk Script to the Builder language variant) or it's that it's too much work (sometimes that is true). But in fact the IDE itself is entirely (spaghetti) coded in xTalk Script. The dictionary entrees can be created and edited with a plain old text editor. You can post the files here or send them to me so you don't even need to learn to use GitHub (but I recommend using it, with a GUI front-end!). Even peripheral things like creating a 'code-of-conduct" declaration for the project would be helpful or creating a GitHub markdown-based (not HTML) web pages for the project. Bill Millby has a nice, OpenSource, LC-flavored-markdown editor stack you could use too (permission to use in OXT was granted)

So far I've had a plan all in my head, but it would be good to have a detailed plan of actions written out with the steps needed to achieve each thing on the list.
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