openXION

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richmond62
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openXION

Post by richmond62 »

https://github.com/kreativekorp/openxion
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I suppose some of us have become spoilt . . . . 29 years of a WYSIWYG GUI . . .
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richmond62
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Re: openXION

Post by richmond62 »

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I suppose I now have to dig around and, manually, create those directories, set their permissons, and generally wonder
why I am bothering at all . . .

FFS: for what? To end up with a command-line 'thingy' that, because it has no GUI provides no way
to set up a stack . . . OK, let's try:
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Odd, given:
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And where, forbye, does one put 'it'?

"The newly-created object is placed in the local variable it."

NOT that there seems to be a stack in 'it' in my attempt.
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richmond62
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Re: openXION

Post by richmond62 »

Well, well, well, over on Mac OS 10.7.5 I managed to do this:
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and this:
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Which does not seem much use as there is NO stack . . . and no visual anything.
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richmond62
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Re: openXION

Post by richmond62 »

Screen Shot 2022-08-15 at 1.30.55 PM.png
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What am I missing?
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tperry2x
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Re: openXION

Post by tperry2x »

Well, as far as I can see - having uncompressed the tgz file at:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kreat ... xndocs.tgz

Looking through the "XION Vocabulary Index", there's no mention of the command "Stack", so this is probably why it's erroring as it is an undefined command.
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Re: openXION

Post by richmond62 »

LOL . . . that 'may be' the reason. :lol:
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Re: openXION

Post by tperry2x »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:30 am Screen Shot 2022-08-15 at 1.30.55 PM.png
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What am I missing?
In fact, there's no mention of anything I would call user interface elements, such as "button", "stack", or "field".
It seems to be a bunch of string manipulators, calculation arguments, and methods for collecting and comparing data - but no GUI support.

Can I ask, is your intention to try and build OpenXION into OpenXTalk, or to try and make OpenXION aware of OpenXTalk's GUI in some way? I don't quite see how this is relevant to OpenXTalk.

It seems a bit like trying to reinvent the wheel, (when there's nothing wrong with the current wheel).
Trying to take another programming language and kind of force it to work with OpenXTalk seems a lot of extra un-necessary work. Trying to build a GUI on top of OpenXION when there's no suppport for it does seem like a diversion away from the improvement of OpenXTalk.

With xTalk, the key things would probably be to bug fix and improve the documentation. Perhaps improve the code-completion in a script editor to be on-a-par with the likes of Python IDLE, or UnityScript, or Godot's code editing mode.
(to have the documentation included after LC pulled it would be a good start)

Improvements and additions to the syntax could come later. There are things that really need improving upon, where other languages are way ahead currently (network packet transfer, sending and receiving, opening ports, sending binary data) - this is currently an arcane method and usage in xTalk and is due a huge refresh to keep pace with other languages.

Again, there's plenty of xTalk-like languages out there (SenseTalk for example, by Eggplant software)
https://codedocs.org/what-is/sensetalk
Or Supercard, or Metacard, or HyperStudio et-al...

There's no point trying to imalgamate and shove them into OpenXTalk (in my opinion) as we'll end up with a bloated mess.

Better to improve on what foundations we currently have, bugfix and update the core components, and then build out from there methinks?


Or, is your intention to try and do what PyQt is. You have an underlying core language (Python, or course), then have a GUI builder on top of that (example walkthrough: https://new.pythonforengineers.com/blog ... -and-pyqt/)
or, the PAGE GUI builder for Python:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULe0h0Jl3g

Is this essentially where xTalk or OpenXTalk is headed? - To have a base OpenXTalk core library installed - like your OpenXION command-line, then a GUI editor program on top of it? Are you thinking this would be an easier approach in the long run?
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richmond62
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Re: openXION

Post by richmond62 »

"Can I ask" . . . just Richmond pissing around on his summer holidays. 8-)
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tperry2x
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Re: openXION

Post by tperry2x »

The documentation from Livecode Community 9.6.3:
https://www.tsites.co.uk/otherstuff/run ... e-9.6.3.7z

At least on Linux, it goes in ~/.runrev/
Not sure about other OS's.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: openXION

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

tperry2x wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:52 am
richmond62 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:30 am Screen Shot 2022-08-15 at 1.30.55 PM.png
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What am I missing?
In fact, there's no mention of anything I would call user interface elements, such as "button", "stack", or "field".
It seems to be a bunch of string manipulators, calculation arguments, and methods for collecting and comparing data - but no GUI support.

Can I ask, is your intention to try and build OpenXION into OpenXTalk, or to try and make OpenXION aware of OpenXTalk's GUI in some way? I don't quite see how this is relevant to OpenXTalk.

It seems a bit like trying to reinvent the wheel, (when there's nothing wrong with the current wheel).
Trying to take another programming language and kind of force it to work with OpenXTalk seems a lot of extra un-necessary work. Trying to build a GUI on top of OpenXION when there's no suppport for it does seem like a diversion away from the improvement of OpenXTalk.

There's no point trying to imalgamate and shove them into OpenXTalk (in my opinion) as we'll end up with a bloated mess.

Better to improve on what foundations we currently have, bugfix and update the core components, and then build out from there methinks?
Or, is your intention to try and do what PyQt is. You have an underlying core language (Python, of course), then have a GUI builder on top of that (example walkthrough: https://new.pythonforengineers.com/blog ... -and-pyqt/) or, the PAGE GUI builder for Python:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULe0h0Jl3g

Is this essentially where xTalk or OpenXTalk is headed? - To have a base OpenXTalk core library installed - like your OpenXION command-line, then a GUI editor program on top of it? Are you thinking this would be an easier approach in the long run?
I must have missed this thread a year ago when it started, but I'd still like to throw my two cents in here...

I think you both were missing something here. Mainly that OpenXION was created as a reference implementation fro the language xTalk dialect called XION. As you figure out, It doesn't come with or use any graphical controls or GUI libraries. Beyond that however, it is a useable xTalk that can be used on command line (from shell()) and runs on JAVA VM(s) (I've tested it on a few different JVMs).
So Java VM is OpenXION's 'Engine'. While it has no built-in knowledge of GUI objects such as 'Stacks','Buttons','Fields', etc. it DOES have syntax for defining from scratch and creating those sorts of objects in memory. Those objects could in theory then link to use or drive some GUI library that actually builds and manages the UI. This could be a lot like building GUI apps with Python using Qt or similar, In fact OpenXION can execute Python using syntax like do tMyPyScript. You can also do tScript as Bash, VBScript on Win, and of course AppleScript on macOS.

To test this idea, some time ago, I created a small library replaces the textual 'Ask','Answer', 'Answer Folder/File(s)', etc. commands and uses graphical AppleScript dialogs instead (from the AS standard editions lib available on every mac for many years now). It works well.
https://github.com/OpenXTalk-org/OpenXt ... criptUI.xn


With GraalVM 'natifier' that compiles the used JVM bits into a platform native executable binary, I can imagine this could be bundled up into a little standalone utility app, maybe make a good simple UI for some command line utility (like FFMPEG/FFPLAY for examples).

The advantage OpenXION has over our currently focused xTalk based on LC CE is that there's no need to recompile the 'Engine' to use OpenXION 'natively' on Mac's with AppleSilicon CPUs, or Raspberry Pi's, or FreeBSD, or whatever, because as long as there's a Java VM on the target platform then you're good to go!

https://github.com/OpenXTalk-org/OpenXt ... XION_Stuff
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