Request for 32-bit Linux build

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richmond62
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Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by richmond62 »

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For those who care about this sort of thing (Me, Myself and I alone?), having got a bit 'browned off' with Xubuntu 18.04 LTS (now no longer supported) on Dad's old 32-bit Toshiba, I installed Debian 11 XFCE 32-bit, and after an initial fiddle (i.e. getting my user log-in into the sudoers list, and removing non-existent CDs from the repository list) it is now up-and-running like a charm.

I installed LC Community 7.1.4 (OK, I'm kinky, but I like that version) and 9.6.3 with only a single hitch (which I also experienced
the other day when installing via XFCE onto that Kubuntu install I documented above) - that the 9.6.3 installer froze at the end of the
'happy green line'; but, as LC was already installed I sent the thing a KILL signal and everything was alright.
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ODDLY ENOUGH, even though Canonical have proven that they can be complete wankers [in spite of one of the strongest points in Linux-distros' favour being that they could keep 'old' machines going until they started emitting smoke] having abandoned the 32-bit computer crowd, there are a lot of 32-bit computerrs 'out there', and a lot of people either using them, or wishing they could after Windows XP shafted their machines up the chuff.

Debian at least realise this (and, if you want to be bloody-minded you can install Kali-Linux) and supply a 32-bit installer with a choice of 'fronts': although I suspect Debian 11 with KDE strapped to its front would make most 32-bit machines choke a bit.

One wonders, as Ubuntu (and derivs) are based on Debian, how onerous it would be for Ubuntu to KEEP offering a 32-bit version?

Not, frankly, that Debian + XFCE is obviously particularly more difficult to use than Xubuntu.

------------

Of course it would be perfectly possible to carry on using LC 963 on 32-bit Linux boxes, but that would not do any attempt at 'proliferating'
OXT any good at all.
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FourthWorld
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by FourthWorld »

One wonders, as Ubuntu (and derivs) are based on Debian, how onerous it would be for Ubuntu to KEEP offering a 32-bit version?
Apparently, prohibitively.

Consider planning, coding, compilation, QA, packaging, and hosting for all the packages that make up a healthy distro ecosystem.

I've attended one of their dev summits. That kickoff planning alone costs more than the combined annual salaries of you and me and everyone else in this OXT forum. The food bill alone is staggering. And the summits are just the initial planning sessions.

Canonical is responsible for paying salaries to several hundred people, on top of hard costs for infrastructure and operations.

All of that needs to be paid for in a model where the product is free, with services provided as the revenue source to keep the lights on.

It's important for Mark Shuttleworth and the community that Ubuntu be self-sustaining. I believe this has been achieved, after more than a decade of burn rate.

As with any org, to keep it going they need to balance tradeoffs between the infinite range of things they might like to do, and the much smaller subset of things they can actually afford to do.

Maintaining a 32-bit version of Ubuntu is simply unaffordable by the core maintainers.

The volunteer community members who keep 32-bit going are few and largely uncompensated for the considerable effort and hard cost required.

So before you call my friends at Canonical "wankers" for a sin no worse than sustainability of the project tens of millions rely on, please take a moment to consider what it costs to maintain an OS.
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richmond62
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by richmond62 »

Well, as Debian offers their 32-bit offering, one wonders what is 'that' difficult moving from that to Ubuntu.

I reserve the right to call someone a wanker when they undertake to do something, promise it, and then rescind that promise when people
may be making plans based on it.
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FourthWorld
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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richmond62 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:19 pm I reserve the right to call someone a wanker when they undertake to do something, promise it, and then rescind that promise when people
may be making plans based on it.
Where can we read this "promise"?
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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Possibly you should check out the 'cognitive load' of 'wanker' in GB English: at which point you would realise it was not very strong.
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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richmond62 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:18 pm Possibly you should check out the 'cognitive load' of 'wanker' in GB English: at which point you would realise it was not very strong.
So there was no promise after all?
richmond62 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:19 pm I reserve the right to call someone a wanker when they undertake to do something, promise it, and then rescind that promise when people may be making plans based on it.
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richmond62
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by richmond62 »

There was, at the very least, an implied promise.
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by FourthWorld »

richmond62 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:33 pm There was, at the very least, an implied promise.
Implied or inferred?
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richmond62
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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Well, inferred and implied are 2 sides of a coin.

Presumably inferences are, generally, derived from implications, and, as we are not binary robots, there can be some element of subjectivity involved in that derivation.

As subjective judgement is involved it is extremely difficult to say whose inference is in any way more 'correct'.

As people's memories are notoriously fickle, even a writer of something, when asked at a later date what they meant to imply, can state something that is not exactly what they meant to imply when they first wrote what they wrote.

And if you want an example of 'verbal wanking' the above may serve quite well. 8-)
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FourthWorld
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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richmond62 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:01 am Well, inferred and implied are 2 sides of a coin.
Yes indeed, opposite sides: the former is what the listener thinks they heard, and the latter refers to what the speaker actually said.

I can't imagine any vendor promising to support any dependency forever, least of all in technology.

Thank you for confirming you can recall no promise for in-perpetuity support of legacy 32-bit machines from Canonical.
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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Thank you for confirming you can recall no promise for in-perpetuity support of legacy 32-bit machines from Canonical.
I would be interetsed to know where you saw that.
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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richmond62 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:18 am
Thank you for confirming you can recall no promise for in-perpetuity support of legacy 32-bit machines from Canonical.
I would be interetsed to know where you saw that.
If you got it, bring it.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

Being that the Linux 'build's I'm doing are portable .AppImage one could theoretically have both 32bit and 64bit binaries in the single container, and then edit it's launch shell script to check the architecture and launch the appropriate bitness binary for the current CPU, could probably work across Intel or Arm CPU as IF we actually had an Arm build beyond 7.x (there was an CE v8 ARM build from a community member but I don't have a copy of it).

Although I'm a firm believer in trying to keep sill useful electronics from becoming e-waste, I can't make any promises as I don't really have time for messing about with now rather old (10-15+ years old) 32bit stuff. I basically had already decided that I would just concentrate on 64bit for OXT IDE.

If you wanted to make the 64bit version into the 32bit version you should only need to replace the app binary, the 'toolchain' binaries, and any Externals (and possibly some Extensions) with the 32bit binaries. IIRC the browser widget is completely non-functional on 32bit Linux so things, like revDictionary and and the 'RecourceRepo', that use web content / JavaScript won't work.
Currently only the 64 bit Linux binaries up in the IDE repo:
https://github.com/OpenXTalk-org/OpenXt ... ents/Tools
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richmond62
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

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As, to be honest,the 32-bit Linux build of LC 963 runs without a hitch in 32-bit Debian this is NOT urgent.

In my school all my Linux boxes are 64-bit.

What I was thinking about is a possible future outreach program to places where education depends on seriously old, donated
machines (c.f. Malawi) . . .
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:26 am As, to be honest,the 32-bit Linux build of LC 963 runs without a hitch in 32-bit Debian this is NOT urgent.

In my school all my Linux boxes are 64-bit.

What I was thinking about is a possible future outreach program to places where education depends on seriously old, donated
machines (c.f. Malawi) . . .
Sure that would be great, but I'm not doing it.

I think it would be great to back-port to run on Mac G4 , Linux PPC, FreeBSD, etc. If only there were a 1000 hours in a day.
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Re: Request for 32-bit Linux build

Post by richmond62 »

And, with the 20-20 vision of further thought, the 32-bit brigade CAN just "chunter on" with LC 963 32-bit.

As has already been pointed out 'most' of 'us' can chunter on with LC 963, but we will all hit a Mac-shaped or a Windows-shaped wall eventually
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