Death By A Thousand Cuts

[xAction]

Lingchi (simplified Chinese: 凌迟; traditional Chinese: 凌遲), translated variously as the slow process, the lingering death, or slow slicing, and also known as death by a thousand cuts, was a form of torture and execution used in China from roughly 900 until 1905. It was also used in Vietnam and Korea. In this form of execution, a knife was used to methodically remove portions of the body over an extended period of time, eventually resulting in death.

The one thousand razors of the killer Bubble

Bubble is a real programming language, designed to replace other programming languages and frameworks traditionally used for web development. This includes back-end technologies such as Ruby on Rails, Django, and PHP, as well as front-end technologies such as HTML, CSS, and Javascript.

Unlike traditional coding technologies, Bubble assumes that you're building a multi-user interactive application for web or mobile.

Some examples:
Remember how Sprite Sheets were such a bother?
Sprite Animation

3D in a browser. That ain't no GIF, click and drag.

Online collaborative graphics and animation. That's just the gallery.
Here's the application.
Deploy your animations on Flutter, React, React Native, C++, iOS, Android, Defold, Tizen, Unity

Every one of those plug-ins represents a developer who will never even think about LC/OXT.
And what did Conan say when his Master asked him "What is best in Life?"

He said this _________ __________ ___________

How many years ago did someone post that thread in the olde tyme forums that said Replace xTalk with JS and everyone pulled their hair out and said "Nooooo"?

Bubble was founded in 2012. The company crossed 250,000 users and $1 million in revenues in 2017. They raised $6.25 million from seed investors in 2019, and an additional $100 million in venture funding in 2021.
According to Similarweb, Bubble.io gets about 2.1 million visits per month...

Traffic to Bubble.io is up over 430% since in 2021 versus the comparable 2017 periods according to our analysis using Google Trends data. That is a compounded growth rate of greater than 50% over the past four years.

Using Bubble, an entrepreneur, founder, or product manager can immediately start building and testing without needing to explain the product to others, and without the need for much capital. Turning an idea into a fully functional web app with a no code tool like Bubble can be done in hours.

I found out about this by posting about OXT on reddit. I reached out to potentially 144,000 educators and two responses came back
1. We only use web apps, for security reasons
2. Check out this no code web app for making web apps

It's really kind of tragic when this company was creating a 'no-code' revolution, the makers of "Revolution" came to the battlefield a year later begging people for money and their precious time to code their engine which they intended to profit from.

Desktop usage of the internet is down to 42% of the market with mobile dominating at 55%

The average person uses 9 mobile apps per day and 30 apps per month

People Spent 90% of Their Mobile Time Using Apps in 2019

I reached out to potentially 151,000 open source fans. I got one reply
"I see GPLv3, it instantly disqualifies my desire to do any kind of development on a project."
Well that might explain why contributions to the project source diminshed to zero, besides absolutely no marketing or outreach.

This is the Hypercard of 2012. Today is November 12, 2021.

[richmond62]

I'm not sure what the point is you are trying to make.

LiveCode, the company, have got stuck in a rut, and I doubt very much that their HTML (when, if) thing will dig them out of it.

LiveCode, the Open Source thing they have just stopped supporting, is up for grabs and can go in 3 possible directions:

1. It can just be released as it is with new un-liveCode branding.

2. It can be released with its current capabilities with the large slew of long-term bugs sorted out and new un-liveCode branding.

3. It can be utterly transmogrified into something else, which will mean that it loses what it has and gains nothing because
other packages do that sort of thing better already.

If any attempt to release a version of "UnLiveCode" goes in the direction of #3 the main point will have been missed
and a chimaera will end up being chased to no benefit to anyone.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

I'm all for being able to use JS libraries like all of those wiz-bang web things, I just want to be able to use them from an xTalk language (which I have done before, that is doable)...
Here's an example:
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/8 ... lk-WebMIDI

Yes I know desktop computing is dying...
Printing is dying, I've been hearing that for at least twenty years now but I'm still making a living at it (although I'm back in packaging now which is a much safer bet than Books/Magazines or Direct Mail)

I find it sad and depressing
Don't know...
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/stude ... sbIfnIoL-g
https://thejournal.com/articles/2015/06 ... kills.aspx
Don't care...
https://www.itprotoday.com/programming- ... -dont-care

The thing about "No-Code" is that it's a lie, there is code underneath (probably with a license attached to it) that someone wrote, that's being obscured from the author of the "no-code" app. Someone had to learn JavaScript enough to make that "No-Code" web app kit possible for people who don't actually want to learn to code, and they probably had to learn WebGL to make the 3D model work on that page (not impressed BTW, VRML could do that in a browser window decades ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML and yet we have mostly flat icons and graphics on web pages these days), and someone had to write the Web Browser with WebGL features and a JavaScript Engine that the "No Code" JS kit runs on in a lower level language like C/C++ or whatever, and someone had to write the C/C++ compiler maybe in assembly language, and then you're at the bottom compiled to machine code, bytes and bits.

That's not to say that high-level things don't have a place, I would just prefer that they include a path down the stairs to the lower levels. If it's snap together code blocks, you should be able to look at the code inside the block, because if you're creative and keep at it, eventually you're probably going to want to do something that there's isn't a pre built block to handle. What we have with the xTalk family of languages + live-editable GUI toolkits, are systems that's are a bit like that. Where you can do some things just by dragging a control into a window and adding one line ("go card next") to a predefined on mouseUp script (and THAT is another area that WE could work on, adding to that IDE folder called "default scripts" that only had two files in it), but if you want it to do more than a PowerPoint Slide Show then you're going to have to learn more. XTalk makes it easy in various was though, with the live running GUI elements, easy to read pseudo-code english-like script and things like dynamically typed variables.

[FourthWorld]

Yes I know desktop computing is dying...

Is it?

I've seen a lot of articles written about that, but I doubt any of them were written with thumbs on a phone.

[xAction]

The writing is on the wall.

The desktop model is diminishing.
Your development environment will not be adopted if it is not secure.
Your development environment will not be adopted if it is not available as a web/mobile app.

Your development environment will never be used by schools because it is not secure and because it is not a web app, so no new users will be coming to the platform.

New users are the blood of a platform, that's why LC has been scraping by for two decades. LC has consistantly failed to attract and maintain new users, it's what drove me away fourteen years ago. The only reason i came back is because I suggested they go open source in 2007, and a lot of other stuff too, and they followed up on 99% of those suggestions and so when they canceled open source I figured I should at least put in a little effort to carry the torch.

At the time I wasn't thinking of the vast ocean that the torch was being swamped by. Sure I knew there were a dozen 3D game engines flowing down the mountain to smother it. And a torrent of free desktop IDEs raining down around it. But then i went looking for why people were not adopting it in the first place, or even hearing about it and whoa, this flood is biblical!

This message is not just for you and it is not just written in this forum thread, the wall the message is blazing across is as big as the world wide web and the message is written in it's DNA.
I'm just reading it to you as I see it.

[richmond62]

Yes I know desktop computing is dying...

Possibly in North America and Western Europe . . . but certainly NOT elsewhere.

The fact that North America and Western Europe are "way ahead" (and that is a moot point) of the
rest of the world does not mean it should disregard the rest of the world.

Yesterday I had to visit 3 state institutions here in Plovdiv, Bulgaria: Companies' House, Tax Office, Local Tax Office.

Apart from the "joy" of standing in line for hours, I noticed that all the officers there used desktop computers (mainly running
Windows XP: had an entertaining chat with a senior officer re reverting to DOS as their tax programs ran more efficiently
that way: told her all about FreeDOS with the GEM GUI) which were connected to their central "what-have-ye"
(but, as the 3 institutions are NOT connected to each other I had to visit all 3) . . .

A week ago I was also at the Maths High School in some incredibly tedious meeting as a consultant on teaching programming,
and went round the classroom which are ALL full of desktop machines being used non-stop by pupils hacking away at C#,
Java and Python [let's not get started on why those particular languages].

I am currently teaching online classes using ZOOM, and all my 'victims' are using desktop machines as they cannot read or
see anything squinting at their mobile phones.

Your development environment will never be used by schools because it is not secure

That is why my computers in my school are NOT connected to the internet.
Why should they be? The children are there to study ESL or programming, NOT to look at people's wobbly bits

or play online crap.

and because it is not a web app

Err . . . really . . . out of 50 children currently doing online ESL with me, exactly 1 uses Google Docs: all the rest are using
either MSWord, LibreOffice or Apache OpenOffice; they also use GIMP, Inkscape, Photoshop or Illustrator of mucking around with
pictures.

Many of the parents of children I teach are owners and/or managers of large concerns that deploy a vast number of desk-top machines and
employ a fair-few in-house programmers.

no new users will be coming to the platform.

NO, it is not: it is because those people at LC centre could not fight their way out of a paper bag when it comes to
advertising and educational out reach.

There is at least one person there [and this was very clear at the conference I attended in Edinburgh about 12-13 years ago]
who is insufferably arrogant and chooses not to listen to anyone beyond LC centre.

Ultimately, the ONLY people that LC centre actually show any sign of listening to are a "closed circle" of about 12 paying developers
that have worked with LC for t least 17 years. All that brouhaha anent "community" was largely hot air, because what they really
wanted was competent C++ developers to do work for them for nothing, which, perhaps unsurprisingly, they did not get.

I contributed, as I still contribute, on a very low level, and all inwith LiveCode; mainly because BBC BASIC and LiveCode would
make very strange bedfellows and are likely to produce anything viable as a baboon and a horse. Many, many other people,
during the 8 year "community period" contributed an awful lot of valuable stuff which has been largely brushed aside because
it was, by-and-large inwith LiveCode itself.

I have been SHOUTING about both of those (especially the latter) for coming on 15 years (and my Master's thesis, 18 years ago,
consisted of an Agent-led Prototype for Educators to develop stuff for educational instruction, delivery and reinforcement),
and no-one "up there" has shown any sign of "takkin tent" of any of that.

AND, I, unlike many other people who have been shouting, chose NOT to get out of the "kitchen" when the Open Source version was dropped,
as I believe the fight is worth fighting and has to continue: imagine: the insufferably arrogant versus the eternally naive ( I do hope
that one day they will 'crack' and admit I have a point, and act on that).

Certainly, "getting out of the kitchen" completely is easier than staying there and continuing to "scrape at the grease" on some of the surfaces;
but, unless one stays in the "kitchen" one has little chance of being heard.

Ouch: a bit of a multi-topic rant: but I am a "Genuine People Personality" with 'warts' and strong opinions.

[xAction]

You live in a little bubble Richmond, your anecdotes are not an accurate representation of the wider world of larger populations.

Bulgaria has "systematically demonstrated very high levels of perception of corruption."[1] Government officials reportedly engage in embezzlement, influence trading, government procurement violations, and bribery with impunity.[2]

Reports by Transparency International under the Corruption Perceptions Index indicate that Bulgaria is considered the most corrupt member state of the European Union, to which Bulgaria acceded in 2007.[3][4] In 2015, the European Commission found that Bulgaria had done almost nothing to stem the tide of corruption and organized crime.[3] Other metrics, such as the Global Corruption Barometer, the Freedom Barometer and the Rule of Law Index, also show worrisome trends.[5][6]

You are the only person I've seen anywhere on the internet or among the living to even mention the country's name in 40 years. And the first thing I Google about the place is AWFUL. It's not a model for the rest of the world.

Epic Games has annual profits that are 7.6% of Bulgaria's entire annual GDP.
Salesforce out of San Franciso profits around 33% of Bulgarias entire annual GDP.
Apple brings in profits that are 184% more than Bulgaria's GDP

Those kids are learning Java, C# and Python so they can work for companies outside Bulgaria. They are not learning LC/OXT because their are no jobs demanding it. They sure the hell aren't going to get anywhere with BBC Basic.

When I say "The desktop model is diminishing." I mean "diminshing" and you go on a rant like I said "there are no desktops left in the whole wide world, not under any rock or in any cave, no desktop machine from horizon to horizon!"

I said Diminishing as in Derezzing.

As I said in the initial post, Bubble.io (and online low-to-no-code apps like it) are the Hypercard of 2012, we're nine years beyond the event horizon.

[xAction]

Here's an example:
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/8 ... lk-WebMIDI

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. In fact I had three long posts about secure networks, and downloading files/software leading to security issues and my computer has crawled to a grinding stop and frozen up and had to be reboot four times since downloading and opening that file.
First lets look at what the browser says up top

UNSECURE.png (7.13 KiB) Viewed 5014 times

Then look at the hacked webpage...that ain't right.

HackedWebpage2.png (54.48 KiB) Viewed 5014 times

and then look what it says when the file is downloaded

UnsecuredDownload.png (4.88 KiB) Viewed 5014 times

Every single thing about that will be stopped DEAD by corporate/education/government IT infrastructure.

And if by chance someone manages to get that file and experience what I experiened tonight with calculator. browser, notepad, console, and desktop windows taking a minute each to start and then total system freezes after downloading that file/visiting that URL...do you think they'd ever be back to your website/platform?

I'm not sure if the file caused that or if the website did, but the shartshow started at that URL. THEN when I got the file open it told me to go download and install another thing.

That's not what people want to do. The world is changing, for a good reason.

[richmond62]

I know Bulgaria is as bent as a $9 note; but that is generally on the corporate level, not on
the individual level.

You are the only person I've seen anywhere on the internet or among the living to even mention the country's name in 40 years.

Well, that's a bit "de trop" as, until 32 years ago it was trapped behind the Iron Curtain.

It's not a model for the rest of the world.

No it isn't, I haven't claimed it is.

But, going on what my godbrother tells me about India, and friends elsewhere outwith the North-American-West-European bubble,
a very large number of countries are similar to Bulgaria. What my younger son told me re his visit to Malawi is that that country
might get to the level of Bulgaria in 10-15 years time, and while Bulgaria may be awful (not, frankly, that I have noticed it on
a day-to-day basis over the last 18 years), there are other countries that are extremely awful; AND, levels of corruption aside,
what-the-flying-FFFFFF has that got to do with whether people are using desktop computers or not?

None whatsoever; this is an example of using one set of facts [the extremely high level of corruption in Bulgaria] to prove something
entirely different; which, while possibly interesting, has little or no bearing on people are using desktop computers or not.

Epic Games has annual profits that are 7.6% of Bulgaria's entire annual GDP.
Salesforce out of San Franciso profits around 33% of Bulgarias entire annual GDP.
Apple brings in profits that are 184% more than Bulgaria's GDP

What does that prove?

That Epic Games and Apple make a lot of money. Big deal.

It proves that Bulgaria is a poor country. Well, so are Botswana, Estonia and Sri Lanka.

It certainly does NOT prove anything related to any "diminishment" of the desktop sector.

---

My Masters degree I referenced is from a Scottish University where the boss was suspended on corruption charges, largely to do with some "Microsoft Professor" of something.

Saying that somehow compromises my degree thesis is as daft as saying that the facts about desktop computer "abandonment" in Bulgaria have no
relevance to this discussion because Bulgaria has a high level of corruption.

On a personal level, I can quite honestly say that I have never offered nor received a bribe,
whether in Bulgaria, the U.A.E. or K.S.A. (2 other badly bent countries where I have worked).

Oddly enough, the only time I have ever been offered a bribe directly, was when I was working at a University
in Scotland, by someone from Communist China. I did not accept it.

You are the only person I've seen anywhere on the internet or among the living to even mention the country's name in 40 years.

You obviously didn't look very far:

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/computer- ... bdomain=bg

https://www.apprentus.com/en/s/Bulgaria ... 63/6/25/1/

https://www.researchandmarkets.com/repo ... rogramming

I don't know if you are trying to be funny; but I do find it hard to believe your logic is so shakey.

I said Diminishing as in Derezzing.

I must have read this instead:

Yes I know desktop computing is dying...
Printing is dying, I've been hearing that for at least twenty years now but I'm still making a living at it

Which states . . . desktop computing is dying . . .

Yesterday I went to the Toyota service place to have our Toyota's annual "thingy" and read half of a super book by Mary Renault,
and noticed, in the waiting place, 3 people fiddling around with their phones, 2 other people reading books, and a man with a newspaper.

Some clever person told me 15 years ago that reading books was dead: well, obviously not where I was yesterday, or, for that
matter, on the London Underground in August!

You have just got to love those sweeping, unqualified statements.

[richmond62]

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

That says something about LiveCode's attitude towards quite a few things which may, very well, be the death of them.

HOWEVER, LiveCode may have, almost inadvertently, done a good thing: after 8 years of the development
of a relatively robust Open Source thing, while abandoning it, they did release it "into the wild".

What IS odd is that LiveCode 8 logs me in, but my Browser does not, & via LC 8 I have NO way
of telling whether the site is secure or not.

Although, as LiveCode has been called 'Livecode' for a longish time now, one
wonders, again about the company's attitude to the thing is that it is STILL called RunRev and revOnline.

As far as I recall:
-

SShot 2021-11-13 at 20.46.58.png (35.03 KiB) Viewed 4991 times

-
That website "went west" at least 10 years ago.

Jeepers, creepers: "same old sh*t" in LC 9.6.3.

Obviously the people in Edinburgh have not been near that for a decade: no flaming wonder
it has been hacked, shagged up the "b", and everything else as well.

[xAction]

", levels of corruption aside,
what-the-flying-FFFFFF has that got to do with whether people are using desktop computers or not?"
Your society does not advance if the society is literally living and breathing in the "underworld"

Schools don't get money, because it's skimmed by dirty politicians and handed over to mafia construction crews with 8 guys standing around doing nothing all day for every four guys working.

Businesses don't get loans with government backing they get pressured into going to loan sharks who will never let them out from under their iron boot. It isn't in the interest of the mafia to see a business succeed it's in their interest to keep them in debt.

You obviously didn't look very far:

Well duh, if I go looking I'll find everything under the sun via Google, Yahoo, Bing, or as you posted LinkedIn...American companies where global standards are set.

Of course your backwoods country is not going be in the higher percentile data trends, it would be absolutely shocking if they were in the leading percentile of anything, like being the most corrupt country on the continent...that's an astounding achievment.

When you are presented with stasticial data screeching "anecdote and anecdote and anecdote" doesn't change the data one bit, it just confirms that your experience is from some subset of that data.

For example if I say "16% of people around the world are unemployed" and you come running out of the barn with your pants on fire screaming "BUT I'VE GOT A JOB AND THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH HAVE A JOB"...well yeah...nobody said 100% of people are unemployed.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

[quoteHere's an example:
http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/8 ... lk-WebMIDI

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. In fact I had three long posts about secure networks, and downloading files/software leading to security issues and my computer has crawled to a grinding stop and frozen up and had to be reboot four times since downloading and opening that file.
First lets look at what the browser says up top
UNSECURE.png

Then look at the hacked webpage...that ain't right.
HackedWebpage2.png

and then look what it says when the file is downloaded
UnsecuredDownload.png

Every single thing about that will be stopped DEAD by corporate/education/government IT infrastructure.

And if by chance someone manages to get that file and experience what I experiened tonight with calculator. browser, notepad, console, and desktop windows taking a minute each to start and then total system freezes after downloading that file/visiting that URL...do you think they'd ever be back to your website/platform?

I'm not sure if the file caused that or if the website did, but the shartshow started at that URL. THEN when I got the file open it told me to go download and install another thing.

That's not what people want to do. The world is changing, for a good reason.

Wow, I’m somewhat offended by that.
I wrote that stack, just as a demo of using that JavaScript library from LC Script, and linked to it to show you it’s possible to use JS libraries. If you had to install a WEB PLUGIN / ADDON for it to work, you would’ve had to do that for it to work in your web browser too! There are additional JS libs to use WebAudio and mp3-based web pseudo-soundfonts instead of real MIDI synths and instruments but that demo isn’t about that, and that would’ve made the stack much larger too, just as it has to download a bunch into your browser cache in order for that to work in a web browser.
It uses the lib for JAZZ MIDI, because WebMIDI wasn’t and still isn’t supported by all browsers/JavaScript engines by default. I wrote that before there was LCB FFI so I used whatever was possible at the time. That lib / web plugin is by one of the main engineers helping to define the standard for in-browser webMIDI, I can assure you it’s safe to install.

I can also assure you my little demo stack has nothing to do with your problems with your other apps or computer running poorly, maybe get some antivirus software, switch to a better OS, or upgrade your hardware?

The thing about “unsecured” has nothing to do with LiveCode as a development environment, it’s the web server that’s serving that livecodeshare… site, it’s still using http: instead of httpS: but I’ve never had any problems downloading from it, behind a firewall or not. They should get their website administrator to at least update that to https: though. I could put the same stack on GitHub or Google Drive and it wouldn’t say “insecure”, that doesn’t really make it any more secure, but since there’s no password services involved with that stack it doesn’t really matter except to people who don’t understand.

Frankly I think if you’re worried about widespread adoption and commercial success of the platform you should be talking to the people at LC Ltd. as they’re the ones presumably trying to do that.

I’m just looking to keep the open source version alive, and improve it as much as I can, for hobbyists like me who just want to use it for non-commercial purposes.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

Not to get too political here, but I have a friends that have/do work construction, even when it’s freezing fffff’n cold out, and I myself have been a union guy at one time so I’m not liking that sentiment either. Unions were once a great force for a thriving middle class in this country, no matter the negativity from a certain side of the political spectrum in a certain country where there’s only two viable sides to pick from.

[xAction]

I'm not worried about 'commercial' success, I'm worried about hours of development spent developing for only one person.

When I point to the commercial failure of LCs business model it's simply pointing out where LC went wrong for 18 years and since we are picking through their trash I'm pointing to where we will be left with a community of two or three people where nothing moves forward. No Brains No Gain. We need a lot of smart people to move forward.

To attract smart people we need to meet them on the road they are traveling, not tell them 'our way or the highway", becaues they are already doing 100 mph on that highway towards web 3.0

Web 3.0 is an inclusive set of protocols to provide building blocks for application makers. These building blocks take the place of traditional web technologies like HTTP, AJAX and MySQL, but present a whole new way of creating applications.

My antivirus(plural) work fine, that's why it yelled at me not to download that stack the first time, then it did a full system scan because I ignored it. My browsers automatically warn me not to enter unsecure sites before the URL even loads, which I ignored as well because it was a 'rev' sight I'd been to a hundred times.

Data to/from an unsecure sites can be intercepted and bad data can be inserted into it.

I have not had to download a plugin for any javascript stuff on the web since Unity gave up their plugin six years ago.
Stuff 'just works.' 3D, sound, compiling 50 other programming langauges in a browser., playing games, all this stuff, you name it.

I've had to hard restart my Windows PCs Six times in ten years, four of them were yesterday.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

I'm not worried about 'commercial' success, I'm worried about hours of development spent developing for only one person.

When I point to the commercial failure of LCs business model it's simply pointing out where LC went wrong for 18 years and since we are picking through their trash I'm pointing to where we will be left with a community of two or three people where nothing moves forward. No Brains No Gain. We need a lot of smart people to move forward.

We don't need A LOT of smart people to move forward, we just need ONE person who can recompile the Engines, and maybe make some adjustments for running on a couple of architectures that aren't currently supported (Apple Silicon for example) by the available community engines. I'm going to try to do that myself at some point. I've already been setting up to do this. I have recompiled the modified Dictionary for starters. I'm going to move it forward as much as I can, even if that means learning a bunch of things I currently don't know much about.

To attract smart people we need to meet them on the road they are traveling, not tell them 'our way or the highway", becaues they are already doing 100 mph on that highway towards web 3.0

Yes to attract smart people we need to meet them on the road... not preach to the converted.
https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/mod ... #post-2173

Web 3.0 is an inclusive set of protocols to provide building blocks for application makers. These building blocks take the place of traditional web technologies like HTTP, AJAX and MySQL, but present a whole new way of creating applications.

It's all about HTML5 / WebASM, Cloud Computing, Ditributed Cypto things, etc. so you should be happy with LC Ltd seems to be concentrating on that sort of thing.

Data to/from an unsecure sites can be intercepted and bad data can be inserted into it.

That can probably happen with https too, but anyway I agree they should update that server if they're going to keep it around. I've recently updated the WayBack Machine scan of it on archived.org, in case they ever decide to pull the plug on that. It's obviously not been a high priority for them in a very long time.
[/quote]

I have not had to download a plugin for any javascript stuff on the web since Unity gave up their plugin six years ago.

I probably wrote that stack 6 years ago so... lets look at current browser support for WebMIDI (https://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi/)
https://caniuse.com/midi
NOTE: playing back MIDI file is not what I'm talking about here, there's been ways of doing that over the decades, most people used QuickTime for that until Apple dropped support for that.
Here's another way for Win32 APIs:
http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk/m ... 3steps.htm
What I'm after is interactive MIDI using actual musical instrument hardware, or realtime software sound synthesizers, or both.
I'm interested in looking at any of those Web things that can do any of that without some sort of add-on ("Plugins" were replaced by newer system for extensions: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/extensions)
That stack actually used jsPlay (http://www.kreativekorp.com/lib/jsPlayCommand/), see if that can access a MIDI device (including virtual device software and WebMIDI API) from your browser here:
http://jsfiddle.net/eLdq6/

I've had to hard restart my Windows PCs Six times in ten years, four of them were yesterday.

I don't know what your problem is but I highly doubt it has anything to do with my demo stack.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

I don't know what is wrong with your browser, but that page looks like this for me in Safari:

Screen Shot 2021-11-14 at 8.56.12 AM.png (377.1 KiB) Viewed 5049 times

Chrome:

Screen Shot 2021-11-14 at 8.58.33 AM.png (315.07 KiB) Viewed 5049 times

[FourthWorld]

Yes, it renders well for me in Firefox too.

Maintaining an SSL cert is indeed important for any site that accepts input, even more so for one that encourages downloading executable code.

But non-loading CSS is not necessarily evidence a site has been hacked.

Moreover, no one here can help restore that domain's cert. To write here instead of to that domain's support cannot fix the issue.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

Now if I just wanted to use basic WebAudio sounds, that is doable with JS libraries, which could be loaded and controlled in LC Browser widget. The problem with that is that used Chrome (CEF) on Win/Linux/Android but Safari on Apple platforms. I believe LC Ltd. is moving to all WebKit (Safari, Firefox, Konquerer linage) so it will be same web engine across platforms. They also had limited options enabled in there CEF builds (for security reasons?), which prevented some things from working that could work in regular Chrome or the Canary builds. It's also hard to have it all self-contained in a single stack file, HTML, CSS, JS (MULTIPLE JS FILES SOME TIMES) files can be merged into a single page stream and loaded all at once, but that takes some additional work (which I did in that stack's included web page)

Here is a purely JS "synth" demo that wraps MIDI.JS ( https://github.com/mudcube/MIDI.js), I'm sure I could make a stack that loads the JS lib from this page and then send messages to it from LCScript:
https://jazz-soft.net/demo/synthMIDIjs.html
That page loads these additional JS scripts:
<script src="JZZ.js">
<script src="MIDI.js">
<script src="JZZ.synth.MIDIjs.js">
<script src="JZZ.input.Kbd.js">
Which load other items like small mp3 sounds

I could take time away from my current work to update that stack to use some WebAudio JS thing for playback, but I've built LCB FluidSynth since then (2017) and a few other libraries that offer more direct access, so maybe I should just delete that demo. I probably didn't explain what it is and does enough for the casually interested. But it is an example of using a JS lib from LCS.
If you look at JAZZ-Soft's page you need some sort of plugin (or newer web "Extension") to do any of the same system level MIDI / MIDI hardware access, even offline using Node.js, or VBA Script, Perl, Python, etc. and including in the very latest web browsers.

[richmond62]

Cripes; several of us (including myself) got a bit overly sweaty under the oxters there, didn't we.

Well, I suppose as long as things don't get personal that's alright.

[I have edited this message as I made a slightly off-colour remark which I have now removed.]

[richmond62]

I have modified that message after considering your message.