Adding Insult to Injury?

All sorts of amusements and nonsense unrelated to xTalk
Post Reply
User avatar
OpenXTalkPaul
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:19 pm
Contact:

Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

So now there's a deal here $299 for a year with the IDE, all platforms (it doesn't say if this new plan makes standalone apps that are DRM tied to your LC account or not):
https://livecode.com/full-works/

So if you were stupid like me and threw some money to LC in 2020 when the pandemic hit because you thought they must be having desperate times because they offered a "Pay what you can" deal, then you too are ineligible for this plan (new customers only). I mean it's good that they're being a bit flexible with pricing to try to attract new users I guess, but the way they go about doing things just seems tone def to me usually.
User avatar
richmond62
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:03 am
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by richmond62 »

This probably LC are financially desperate and they are at risk of going under.
-
SShot 2022-01-26 at 10.12.12.png
SShot 2022-01-26 at 10.12.12.png (438.75 KiB) Viewed 5203 times
-
The funny thing is that LiveCode keep sending me these adverts.

AND, the other funny thing is that pictures like that make me feel queasy.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
FourthWorld
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by FourthWorld »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:49 am (new customers only)
I've heard the business rationale/rationalization for "new customer only" deals across many industries, but they've never set well with me.

I was raised with the maxim, "Dance with the one who brung ya".

When any company treats strangers off the street more kindly than the loyal friends who've stuck with them through thick and thin over the years, it just seems like misplaced priorities.

I don't treat my personal relationships like that; see no need to do any less with my business relationships.

I like Kevin and consider him a friend. Sad to see him heed whomever gave him that guidance. Seems like 20th century thinking.

When I come across those offers from any other vendor I call them to see if they'll reconsider. If they don't they go on my list of vendors to ignore because there are too many options in the world and I only have so much time to spend with any one of them. With tech vendors especially, I need to see modern thinking.
User avatar
richmond62
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:03 am
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by richmond62 »

I need to see modern thinking.
I dislike the word modern because it is really a shifting thing.

But whoever advises LiveCode about customer outreach needs to take a running jump.

Fails:

1. Loyalty to established user base.

2. Education . . .

3. Outreach to new coders/programmers (i.e. getting new customers).

Some time ago LiveCode were in deep financial sh*t, had to move from their (needlessly) expensive offices in the
posh New Town of Edinburgh to somewhere 'behind' the Russians. If their current way of doing things is supposed to lift them
out of that sh*t I wish them luck, but I do not see it happening.

I am teaching myself Python, not because I have any desire to, but for the simple reason that the Bulgarian
government has announced that ALL 9-12 year olds will be taught this at school, but they have not explained where
they are suddenly going to get 1000s of Python teachers from, and I see a market opportunity (vampire on a
failing system).

I would far, far rather teach LiveCode (and I will sneak a bit into future programming classes) because I believe that,
even if nothing else, it is an ideal language to get the 9-12 year old crowd up-and-moving.

I also believe that a large part of the reason why LiveCode is not being taken up (and in some cases is being dropped)
by schools is due to the signal failure to address educators in a way that makes much sense to them.

This brave attempt to hive off a branch of LiveCode is wonderful, but I do wonder whether there will be any uptake
worth talking about.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
User avatar
OpenXTalkPaul
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:04 am
I need to see modern thinking.
I dislike the word modern because it is really a shifting thing.

But whoever advises LiveCode about customer outreach needs to take a running jump.

Fails:

1. Loyalty to established user base.

2. Education . . .

3. Outreach to new coders/programmers (i.e. getting new customers).

Some time ago LiveCode were in deep financial sh*t, had to move from their (needlessly) expensive offices in the
posh New Town of Edinburgh to somewhere 'behind' the Russians. If their current way of doing things is supposed to lift them
out of that sh*t I wish them luck, but I do not see it happening.

I am teaching myself Python, not because I have any desire to, but for the simple reason that the Bulgarian
government has announced that ALL 9-12 year olds will be taught this at school, but they have not explained where
they are suddenly going to get 1000s of Python teachers from, and I see a market opportunity (vampire on a
failing system).

I would far, far rather teach LiveCode (and I will sneak a bit into future programming classes) because I believe that,
even if nothing else, it is an ideal language to get the 9-12 year old crowd up-and-moving.

I also believe that a large part of the reason why LiveCode is not being taken up (and in some cases is being dropped)
by schools is due to the signal failure to address educators in a way that makes much sense to them.

This brave attempt to hive off a branch of LiveCode is wonderful, but I do wonder whether there will be any uptake
worth talking about.
Python ain't too bad, pair it up with Qt5 (and QML) and you've got an interpreted language with foreign function (libFFI) capabilities and a nice cross-platform GUI Toolkit... and there's aslo JavaScript which isn't the worst and gives basic message stuff (like OnMouseDown) and can be matched up with various JS app engines and various libraries, including hardware access / bare metal stuff). I've looked at both a bit
There's Lau as well which I've always sort of liked, and I've been learning C,Objective C, C++ some more, and playing with Swift Playgrounds as well....
But still the only programming language I've ever consider myself a FAN of is 'xTalk'!
And that is because it's coding & App/UI toolkit system that largely works the way that I think it should work while also being highly extensible and modifiable allowing for changing things to exactly the way you think it should work.
I'm not religious about it though, If something that better make more sense to me comes along I'd move to that.
But I'm not doing this for a career either, so as a hobbyist I'm free to stay with working with what I like (at least as long as I still have hardware that can run it). If I was a young person looking to build a career as a coder, I would be trying to become a JavaScript wiz first I think, the most employment opportunities are in that.
User avatar
richmond62
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:03 am
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by richmond62 »

Python ain't too bad
No it isn't for the likes of Thee and Me who are older than 12-13 (I was 60 yesterday), and so are past
the stage in human brain development where we are unable to reason abstractly.

But for children who are still in the Concrete Operational Stage (exacerbated by an educational system that
works on the theory that memorisation is far, far more important than the ability to think) it is bloody awful.

I have no beef with Python as such; but as my world revolves around teaching school children I have to
think about the way they can handle information whenever I need to assess anything.
-
piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-5a95c43aa9d4f900370bf112.png
piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-5a95c43aa9d4f900370bf112.png (40.64 KiB) Viewed 5126 times
-
xTalk fits right into the Concrete Operational Stage, and allows children a smooth transition
to the Formal Operational Stage, unlike SCRATCH & Co.
that leave teenagers stuck with a pile of wooden bricks, or Python, C# & Co. that expect too much of children
at that stage.
-
piaget-stages-Marked.png
piaget-stages-Marked.png (227.59 KiB) Viewed 5123 times
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
User avatar
OpenXTalkPaul
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:01 am
Python ain't too bad
No it isn't for the likes of Thee and Me who are older than 12-13 (I was 60 yesterday), and so are past
the stage in human brain development where we are unable to reason abstractly.

But for children who are still in the Concrete Operational Stage (exacerbated by an educational system that
works on the theory that memorisation is far, far more important than the ability to think) it is bloody awful.

I have no beef with Python as such; but as my world revolves around teaching school children I have to
think about the way they can handle information whenever I need to assess anything.
-
piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-5a95c43aa9d4f900370bf112.png
-
xTalk fits right into the Concrete Operational Stage, and allows children a smooth transition
to the Formal Operational Stage, unlike SCRATCH & Co.
that leave teenagers stuck with a pile of wooden bricks, or Python, C# & Co. that expect too much of children
at that stage.
-
piaget-stages-Marked.png
I hear ya (in fact I'm remembering when my wife was studying this same early childhood development stuff before she decided to switch up her career path).
I'm certainly a fan of xTalk's general approach, low learning curve / low barriers for entry. In my opinion it really does blow away all others I've looked at that are allegedly targeted towards beginners... sigh, I feel like we're forever preaching to the converted.
I was 60 yesterday
A Belated Happy Birthday to you Richmond!
User avatar
richmond62
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:03 am
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: Adding Insult to Injury?

Post by richmond62 »

I feel like we're forever preaching to the converted.
As far as I can see, the largest part of the problem is that the 'Pope' and his cardinals sit in the vatican and
display 'no nothing' towards any type of evangelism aimed at the educational sector.

And an awful lot of potential converts are already adherents to the church of Python and so on.
-
spInq.jpeg
spInq.jpeg (11.66 KiB) Viewed 5111 times
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests