OXT Lite 1.08

[richmond62]

Well, on MacOS 12 there is a strange 'something' that keeps flashing on screen as the app attempts to load . . .

It appears to be running . . .

BUT no GUI loaded, and after 3 minutes the thing quit . . .

On second attempt the 'whole thing loads': most odd.
-

OXTL108.jpg (334.09 KiB) Viewed 853 times

-
Now it is running: absolutely wonderful.

[richmond62]

Just installed on MacOS 15.1 and runs without a hitch.

[richmond62]

9 updates . . . Yum!

[tperry2x]

9 updates . . . Yum!

9?... Hmmmm.
Are you counting each file as an 'update'? Some aren't 'updates', just informational text to tell you what's changed, so not updated files.

Should be 10 though. I wonder if you were downloading it while I was actually uploading the update files. Please re-run the updates, and click 're download last update'. It should be showing 10 downloads.

[richmond62]

Yes, I am counting each file as an update.

Please re-run the updates, and click 're download last update'.

-

Screenshot 2024-10-05 at 10.07.19.png (51.82 KiB) Viewed 263 times

-

366244942_10159270938271044_9117872000477104792_n.jpg (204.42 KiB) Viewed 263 times

[richmond62]

The 'insecure' option worked . . . I wonder why that was: the 'secure' (i.e. https) option has always worked previously.

[tperry2x]

Yes, I am counting each file as an update

Then that's incorrect. There are 10 files. Not 10 updates.

[richmond62]

Then that's incorrect. There are 10 files. Not 10 updates.

Alright: understood.

I STILL think the way, after the updates/files have been downloaded, the IDE quits (and does NOT automatically restart) is going to put some people off.

[neville]

So is OxT Lite 1.08 different from OxT Lite 1.07 with all its recent updates, other than its name? Because the list of things changed looks exactly like the automatic updates that were happening to my 1.07 version, but the splash screen still shows 1.07.

In fact only after perusing the forum did I find out that 1.08 was available; maybe Check for updates should say a new version is available?

Some quibbles:

The version number does not appear anywhere in Get info (on Mac) so until you open the app you have no idea which version a given file contains (doesn't appear in the About... box for the app either). Presumably this is the pList-codesigning issue.

I downloaded 1.08. Wouldn't open under macOS Ventura. So I install the certificate as per the instructions. Certificate indeed installs into the keychain. But on running the suggested codesigning command , Terminal says "No identity found" so I guess it didn't find the certificate. Maybe a missing option in the command .... aargh, I really don't want to relive my old nightmares with certificates in my former life as a (part-time) Mac developer, I really really hope you can work out how to codesign the app.

So back to the insecure method of bypassing Gatekeeper ... except that some time since I first launched OxT Lite 1.07, Ventura has decided to hide the "Allow any app downloaded from anywhere" option again, and it's late at night and my aging brain has forgotten the magic incantation to enable it and Google keeps telling me how to do it in Mohave or somewhere else in California, anywhere but Ventura...

OK got there eventually. Despite my grumblings many thanks Tom for your great work.

[tperry2x]

Hi Neville, firstly - and above all else: I'm glad you got it working.
Oh, and thank you for the thank you. I write that (not to massage my ego or anything), what I mean is it's just good to hear when people are appreciative.

I'll try and answer a few points.

So is OxT Lite 1.08 different from OxT Lite 1.07 with all its recent updates, other than its name? Because the list of things changed looks exactly like the automatic updates that were happening to my 1.07 version, but the splash screen still shows 1.07.

Yes and no. I'll explain. Let's say you downloaded v1.07 and didn't do any updates. You'd obviously see the changes when downloading the entire thing afresh. That would contain all the cumulative updates. If, on the other hand, you'd downloaded 1.07 and run the updater when the updates were available, then you wouldn't see any changes upon first downloading v1.08 - that's because your v1.07 was previously patched up to the point of v1.08 (if that makes sense).
Why release v1.08 then? - because if you wanted to install this on a new computer, but didn't want to have to run through all the updates one by one. What I might do however is try and get the updates to run all at the same time. That's a bit trickier, and the last time I tried it on my tests here, I messed up my own script - (Of course, I have local version control, so not a problem).
What I'd also like to do is implement Richmond's suggestion about "re-springing / relaunching" the IDE after an update, but that's a bit more involved.

In fact only after perusing the forum did I find out that 1.08 was available; maybe Check for updates should say a new version is available?

That is a fair point - I mean, yes - the updates are reported always on the same page, but OXT Lite won't have told you necessarily. I try to keep the pushing-of-updates out of everyone's face. Not everyone wants them all the time. However there is an option in the preferences to automatically check for updates now and again, which could get annoying quickly. That's why it's off as default.

The version number does not appear anywhere in Get info (on Mac) so until you open the app you have no idea which version a given file contains (doesn't appear in the About... box for the app either). Presumably this is the pList-codesigning issue.

Yes, exactly - and it's kind of intentional. If I change the pList with each release, I end up breaking codesigning. So I intentionally left it generic. Codesigning continues to be a headache, and as I've mentioned, I absolutely wish someone would codesign the OXT Lite app only for me, and push it back to me - but that's a big ask each and every time I do a version upgrade.
The reason I didn't mess about with the 'About' menu and put the versioning information in there - was because it seems to crash the IDE under MacOS. The revMenuBar stack is extremely sensitive it seems under MacOS 11+, and I've caused some pretty spectacular crashes in the past by trying to add things here.
As such, I'm keeping it in the "Help menu" > "IDE Information" for the time being. I know it's not intuitive and doesn't fit with standard MacOS menu behavior, but it seems to mean the IDE doesn't throw spectacular fatal errors from time to time. (I've since made a mental note to avoid touching anything to do with menu generation of the IDE if I can at all help it).

I downloaded 1.08. Wouldn't open under macOS Ventura. So I install the certificate as per the instructions. Certificate indeed installs into the keychain. But on running the suggested codesigning command , Terminal says "No identity found" so I guess it didn't find the certificate. Maybe a missing option in the command .... aargh, I really don't want to relive my old nightmares with certificates in my former life as a (part-time) Mac developer, I really really hope you can work out how to codesign the app.

So back to the insecure method of bypassing Gatekeeper ... except that some time since I first launched OxT Lite 1.07, Ventura has decided to hide the "Allow any app downloaded from anywhere" option again, and it's late at night and my aging brain has forgotten the magic incantation to enable it and Google keeps telling me how to do it in Mohave or somewhere else in California, anywhere but Ventura...

There's a "Read me first" (Yellow Warning triangle) in the DMG. Open that, follow through the prompts. It's an Applescript, and it'll allow that setting of "allow apps from anywhere" in system settings when run. It'll also open the security prefpane, then click to "Allow any app downloaded from anywhere" - this has been hidden by Apple on recent versions of MacOS as default.

OK got there eventually. Despite my grumblings many thanks Tom for your great work.

^ I'm glad you got there. Yes, it can be a headache. It's always codesigning, always.
So much so, that I might turn on the updater to allow for version number upgrading. (What that means is, if you were on v1.08 and had been following the updates, when I saw fit to go to v1.09 - you'd do it via the updater, rather than download a whole new IDE afresh) - but to do that, so that you don't have to download updates one after the other, I need to get my head around how best to have this on a loop - so they all come in at once. Again, doable - when my head is less fried.

[neville]

Thanks Tom

On the auto-updater - I think it should advise when a new version number is available, not just updates to the installed version. As for getting the app to relaunch after installing updates, yes it would be nice (doesn't that involve os scripting for each platform?) but it would be sufficient to just have a note asking the user to relaunch.

On codesigning - I'm sure you'll get to fix that eventually, but it really is a pain, I'm sure it would drive many new users off.

On the terminal thing - my point was the instructions for getting the enclosed certificate to deep codesign didn't work (at least for me). So either this needs to be fixed or the "install certificate" route for launching should be deleted from the Read me.

And thanks I did remember the magic incantation to put the finger to Nanny Apple's Gatekeeper is somewhere in the Read me, after I found it on Google.

[richmond62]

On the Facebook page for Devawriter Pro, every time there is an update, I 'shout it from the rooftops' so that people actually work out there is an upgrade: mainly because my main users are navel-gazing yogis who might not even notice if a fly settled on their nose.

I would suggest a bit of shouting re OXT Lite: not because any of its users are looking at their tummy buttons, but because most of them are very busy people with many things to keep track of.

[tperry2x]

...every time there is an update, I 'shout it from the rooftops'..I would suggest a bit of shouting re OXT Lite

I've added this in the next update.
More info here. Just want to do some further testing before I make that 'live'.

[richmond62]

That is NOT 'shouting things from the rooftops': that is prodding the converted.

Somewhere in the big, wide interweb there needs to be some socking great "The latest and greatest xTalk IDE can kick arse ven more with its latest upgrade: 1.08!"

[tperry2x]

Somewhere in the big, wide interweb there needs to be some socking great...

I hear this 'social media' is quite popular with the youngsters. I don't indulge in any of that 'social media' stuff - I say that a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it's true. The term 'Social media' to me sounds like playing a bit of music to someone.

Do we have a Facebook, Instagram, Twitter (X), whatever... account for OXT? We could do a bit of PR there.
I had previously had this page buried away, and have just resubmitted that for Google to crawl.

Then there's the whole Youtube thing. The YouTube shorts seems to be 'a thing' at the moment...

[richmond62]

The YouTube shorts seems to be 'a thing' at the moment...

ABout 15 years ago as far as I know.

Just "hang around in the playground" and ask a few pimply teenagers, and they will let you know.
-
https://www.scotsman.com/arts-and-cultu ... ok-1554029
-
Wots Soshul Media?

[tperry2x]

The YouTube shorts seems to be 'a thing' at the moment...

ABout 15 years ago as far as I know.

Ah, good to see I'm about as 'trendy' as ever, ha.

Just "hang around in the playground" and ask a few pimply teenagers, and they will let you know.

I got the I.T. Literacy teacher to ask the year 11's today, "What are the apps you can't live without - and the first you'd install on a new phone". Apart from the silly responses, like Grindr , they said "Insta, Whatsapp, Telegram messenger, Tiktok, Snapchat and of course, Youtube if it's not already on there".