What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

A place to discuss and plan OpenSource xTalk (not exclusively LCC based)
and Community Builds of LCC ...Ask NOT what xTalk can do for you...
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A place to discuss and plan OpenSource xTalk (not exclusively LCC based) and Community Builds of LCC
Ask NOT what xTalk can do for you... get involved you DO have something to contribute, no matter your skillset!

What would you like to see in the next version?

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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

tperry2x wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 5:30 pm then does that mean you don't need anything on local path variable?

I can't see where that's mentioned in the posts though.
I'm also not sure where it's set in the home stack. Do you recall where it's mentioned?
To be honest I can't recall exactly what I was doing when messing with 'java_home', but It was probably while messing about with OpenJDK or GraalVM. I beleive It's actually Java that needs the Java_Home environmental variable set, not so much the IDE. "revInternal_SetJAVA_HOME" seems to be the command that sets JAVA_HOME for the IDE, but I'm not sure where that code exists (I'll try to find it later).
This article here talks about setting the variable via with command lines on Linux, macOS and Windows: https://www.baeldung.com/java-home-on-w ... os-x-linux

SO post here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/228 ... -os-x-10-9
The answer shows how to specify a specific version of Java to use on macOS (bash or zsh):
f you're using bash, all you have to do is:

echo export "JAVA_HOME=\$(/usr/libexec/java_home)" >> ~/.bash_profile
If you're using zsh (which probably means you're running macOS Catalina or newer), then it should instead be:

echo export "JAVA_HOME=\$(/usr/libexec/java_home)" >> ~/.zshrc
In either case, restart your shell.

If you have multiple JDK versions installed and you want it to be a specific one, you can use the -v flag to java_home like so:

echo export "JAVA_HOME=\$(/usr/libexec/java_home -v 1.7)" >> ~/.bash_profile
______________________________________________________________________________

I added lines that tack the ':usr/local/bin' on to the $PATH environmental variable, they weren't in the Home script originally. I'm guessing the Environmental variables are originally set by the Engine but tacking on the extra directory in the 'on start' handler works fine for me.
This shows where I added the script in the Home stack:
https://github.com/OpenXTalk-org/OpenXt ... cript#L379
The comment with that script is about a situation if you have duplicates or different versions of the same command line tool but in different directories, the operating system should search these directories in the order they're listed and stop searching once it's found a binary with the requested name in one of the directories. So you may want them in a different order if you're trying to override a version of the binary installed on the system's directory.
The reverse would be something like:

Code: Select all

put "/usr/local/bin:" before $PATH
Here's a discussion on the same issue I found:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37042
According to 'over there' LCMark the engine inherits the $PATH variable from whatever process launched it. On macOS that's likely to be Finder.app. If this is the case then I would imagine it wasn't really an issue for Linux users, since on Linux the .desktop file probably launches the engine with shell commands it should have inherit the same Environment as Bash (or whatever alternative shell your distro may be using).
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richmond62
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by richmond62 »

Screenshot 2024-10-09 at 20.34.29.png
Screenshot 2024-10-09 at 20.34.29.png (199.17 KiB) Viewed 4902 times
-
MacOS 12.7

Tried that twice, and baith times it didnae wark. 8-)

Aiblins it micht wark on MacOS 15.1: I'll gae it a gang in the forenoon.
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tperry2x
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

richmond62 wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 5:37 pm Tried that twice, and baith times it didnae wark. 8-)
If it didn't work, please see where I mention here.

"that's what happens if you don't allow it. The respring won't work and you have to go into gatekeeper settings (System Preferences > Security and Privacy > "Full Disk Access") and turn the checkbox on"
[for the 'oxt-respring.app']

Of course, I expected MacOS to block the attempts at doing this at every turn. I wouldn't be surprised at all if MacOS 15 Sequoia (Redwood, Pine, MDF or whatever chintzy name it's now got) blocks that as default.
Either way, once you allow that in Gatekeeper system preferences, then it's done.

more-gatekeeper-problems.png
more-gatekeeper-problems.png (83.89 KiB) Viewed 4868 times
Apparently, this is how it looks in newer versions of ImageOS:

apparently.png
apparently.png (239.01 KiB) Viewed 4864 times
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tperry2x
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

tperry2x wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 5:30 am ...which is what I did with that RC4 version of your 'Don't panic edition' I mocked up for you...
Quoting myself here, but I've also 'mocked up' an RC4 version of 'Don't panic edition' for Windows.
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tperry2x
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

Did anyone have anything they'd like to see in v1.09 of OXT Lite?
(Within reason of course :D - I can't work miracles!)

Just at the point now where I can do some experimenting with extra features / fixes before producing v1.09.
Thanks everyone.
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richmond62
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by richmond62 »

Sound export?

Animation export?
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tperry2x
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

richmond62 wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:44 am Sound export?
Animation export?
:D I did say "within reason" haha
Sound export: Paul may know a lot more about that. The challenge I think would be in providing something that works cross platform. As far as I'm concerned, I think any new feature we add should have comparable functions across Linux, Windows and MacOS - not just MacOS for example.

Video export: I did do some experiments with exporting animations (MP4 and GIF) using this example stack previously, however my concern here would be making it work for Windows and MacOS (not just Linux).

These are more engine-related, rather than simply additions / fixes to the IDE - as they'd probably want to be available in standalones as functions too. Having said that, exporting audio is a huge task because of there being so many formats and the IDE isn't really an audio editor. Since the dropping of Quicktime, and it's support across all platforms - the task has become a bit harder (In my opinion, although I'd welcome Paul's thoughts on that).

For example, if you look up "record Sound" in the dictionary, you'll see it only uses Quicktime and only supports MacOS (might not truly support MacOS now, unsure of that one). I want to get away from things that don't offer cross-platform support, as that kind of makes the whole multi platform thing a bit null and void.
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by richmond62 »

I did say "within reason" haha
Of course: just 'Yanking your chain' when you have already done such fantastic work. 8-)
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

tperry2x wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:52 pm
tperry2x wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 5:30 am ...which is what I did with that RC4 version of your 'Don't panic edition' I mocked up for you...
Quoting myself here, but I've also 'mocked up' an RC4 version of 'Don't panic edition' for Windows.
Oh cool, I'll have to take a look at that, thanks. I'm working on OXT on MX Linux currently.
Windows is the platform I've worked on the least, it makes me feel unclean :lol:
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:44 am Sound export?

Animation export?
For sound export, as far as I can tell there's no good way to even get at the binary sound data that's embedded in the stack, and it looks like the sound files header section gets stripped off when embedding leaving only raw PCM data, which makes it difficult to brute-force extract them from the Stack's binary data. I tried 'the text of sound' but that crashes the engine. I'd love to be able to extract them. I don't recommend embedding sounds or video into any new stacks, I think it may already be marked as 'deprecated' in the dictionary. Just keep your multimedia files as external, in a 'resources' folder or something.

For Animation, there's the GIF <> GIFArray scripts I wrote some time ago, that could be use to create or modify GIF animations and then export to Animated GIFs.
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:07 pm Windows is the platform I've worked on the least, it makes me feel unclean :lol:
Haha, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth - windows explorer has always felt 'clunky'. Windows 11 is just completely unintuitive to the point of being annoying. Copying / moving files is unbelievably slow and the constant disk read/write access and paging (even on a system with 16GB of ram) is ridiculous. Together with Microsoft's constant efforts to push their user-monitoring-copilot tool onto users (by stealth). Microsoft's profits come from it's Azure cloud and Software-as-a-Service, Microsoft 365 in particular. Microsoft wants you to subscribe to Windows 365, as a "Cloud PC". I can't help feeling that CoPilot is just going to end up being a tool to push "things the user might need" based on how they are using their computer. In other words, continuously watching and thinking of ways to make Microsoft money.

My criticisms extend to newer versions of MacOS too, where the interface is noticeably slower in Big Sur (11) onwards. Combined with the 'iOS-ification' of the OS, and the fact that the settings are now a mess (see above), hardly anything can be customised now, and everything is restricted/sandboxed and blocked at every turn.

I sometimes get a bit despondent about the state of "desktop OS", and it seems in some ways things have gone backwards lately.

At least with Linux, - yes it might have a niche market share, and yes - you might have to find alternative software to do what you want. There's going to be a learning curve and this is probably what puts people off. For people who have absolutely no inclination to build their OS as they see fit (the concept is entirely foreign) - they just want something they can use, and probably just live with the restrictions imposed. (comes back to that sensorship post in some ways).
The nice thing though is you can have a responsive OS, with no telemetry and system monitoring, and total control over each and every part of it as you see fit. (It's your computer, so you should be able to do what you want on / with it). Unfortunately too many people will see it as a step into the unknown, and are stuck thinking in the Windows or MacOS mindset all the time.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

tperry2x wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:40 pm it seems in some ways things have gone backwards lately.
You can sure say that again!
Backwards to the age of robber barons.

I agree with the rest of the MS & Apple criticisms.

I need to force myself to use Linux to the point where I can have a perfectly customized, open-source, look-a-like AND work-a-like of macOS Snow Leopard or Mohave. It's fairly easy to to get the look-a-like part (Compiz you can even get the eye candy effects). It's the work-a-like part that's quite a bit more difficult to put together. With Apple's Cocoa everything is tightly integrated, designed to work together and with enforced consistency across all apps.
helloSystem is a pretty good attempt, but that project seems to have slowed to a crawl development-wise. Prior to that there was similar project (a bit different goals) that had macOS-like customized UI theme on GNUStep+ in a FreeBSD Distro. That fizzled out in 2016. Here http://etoileos.com/etoile/
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by overclockedmind »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:19 pm
tperry2x wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:40 pm it seems in some ways things have gone backwards lately.
You can sure say that again!
Backwards to the age of robber barons.

I agree with the rest of the MS & Apple criticisms.

I need to force myself to use Linux to the point where I can have a perfectly customized, open-source, look-a-like AND work-a-like of macOS Snow Leopard or Mohave. It's fairly easy to to get the look-a-like part (Compiz you can even get the eye candy effects). It's the wok-a-like part that's quite a bit more difficult to put together. With Apple's Cocoa everything is tightly integrated, designed to work together and with enforced consistency across all apps.
helloSystem is a pretty good attempt, but that project seems to have slowed to a crawl development-wise. Prior to that there was similar project (a bit different goals) that had macOS-like customized UI theme on GNUStep+ in a FreeBSD Distro. That fizzled out in 2016. Here http://etoileos.com/etoile/
I've gotten close with... Xubuntu or even anything Debian-based (I started in .rpm / RedHat world, you can understand why I won't support them now [their problems with CentOS being one, or at least the infighting.] ) Even had a setup at one point that gave me "Mac OS 9's menu" and then you just set up another transparent, hide-able panel on the bottom. Loved it, may have it in backup form, but I don't think that I do.

www.xfce-look.org there's a gnome-look too, basically all the DEs have themes that do what you're thinking. Snow Leopard wouldn't be too tough.
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tperry2x
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by tperry2x »

That's just it. There's certainly choice, seemingly endless choice.
I spent a lot of time 'distro-swapping' at the start of my Linux odyssey :D

KDE Dolphin (screenshot of it running oxt lite 1.08), you'd be forgiven for thinking at first glance it wasn't Sonoma.

It can be made to function how you wish, and there's enough visual eye-candy to satisfy anyone who loves those animations. (They tend to give me motion sickness).

Or there's Deepin, if presentation of the gui is the main goal.
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

I've done it before, a few years back I pretty much nailed a macOS/Snow leopard look (although I did use some Apple iP, like copyrighted Icons and Fonts copied over from a Mac), and to some degree also the feel, of Snow Leopard before. There was actually a distro around, pearOS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILnl2Wq4jgo ), that's pre-setup to look very much like macOS.

Matching the GUI is a bit superficial. Apple themselves have been changing its appearance over time continuously with each new major version. However, It's all the API bits underneath that really make it macOS.
But with the right tweaks / packages / apps you can get really close, at least with some of its more essential features and behaviors. File Manager for example, as Tom mentioned, Dolphin and a few others (Filer, Pantheon Files app, etc.) can really fool you into thinking you're in the macOS Finder, specially if you swap the Control with the Alt keys in key-combos. But assembling it all into a complete macOS-like system yourself can be a significant amount of 'work' (even if it is a labor of love).

One thing I often miss when I'm in a Linux OS file manager is the 'Quick Look', hit space-bar to preview a file contents from within the File manager, full screen window size, without launching any default app, in a pop-up window that disappears when you tap the space-bar again. It's a pretty simple concept but I find it invaluable in a file management workflow.
I think I just found a suitable substitute for that in GNOME SUSHI:
https://sites.google.com/site/installat ... -look-hear
Looks like there's forks of SUSHI for some File Managers other than Nautilus (GNOME Files) too.
And one that works with Dolphin: https://launchpad.net/gloobus-preview
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