Let's watch and learn together.

All sorts of amusements and nonsense unrelated to xTalk
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richmond62
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Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

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We might be surprised . . .

25 April 2023
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richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

Every new version of LC, while, most of the time, having new features, seems to turn up new bugs.

Some of those bugs have been lurking in LC for years.
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Of course, awkward sods like myself either cannot attend, or will find out that for some reason they do not get given mike time.

BUT, were I to have a chance during the 'Q & A' session my questions would go something like this:

1. As LC is chock full of bugs and 'work around' is now a bone stuck in almost every developer's throat, wouldn't
it be a good idea to STOP development of everything and KILL all those bugs completely?

2. Isn't it a bit naughty to:

2.1. Ask for donations towards a commercial development?

2.2. Ask for donations when you have not even fulfilled all the things you said you would do in the previous appeals for donations?

3. Is Xavvi a way of distracting LC users from the problems I have raised in the previous questions?
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

I thought I'd check back again, 'just for fun' [much in the same sort of way my late father described
banging your head on the wall as fun: because it's great when it stops. Miss him every day.]:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... f-livecode
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"Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps"

Well F*ck-Me: it's 10 years later and there is no 'new, beautiful graphical front-end' anywhere is sight . . . and even if the
thing materialises, even though I, and many others, paid for its development, we won't have access to it.

Cut it anyway you like, but that is what my Primary teacher called "ch . . . . . . . .".
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Interesting that 'our friends up north' can get away Scot-free (literally, as well as figuratively) [and I'm a Scot, forbye, sae I sud ken!]
with broken promises and not be held to account.

Many, many people put up with LC's lack of accountability and broken promises because of the Open Source version
and the implied message that those goals would, somehow, materialise over time.

Were we naive, or were we naive?
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

It will be particularly interesting, regardless of what is discussed, if there is a sudden
slew of donations to the kickstarter.

It is interesting to note that donating money to the fundraiser does in no way stop you from having
to pay more money once the thing is ready.
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Doing some calculations with a pencil on the tablecloth, it seems that Xavvi might cost quite a bit.

Certainly, if one wants to use it to make desktop applications, one'll need $3999 per annum.

Although there is a FREE option, it delivers web stuff only, and presupposes an LC licence.
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Crikey! And that's on top of an LC licence.

How the Flying Fudge anyone can expect anyone to stump up $3999 unless they know EXACTLY what they
are buying into I just don't know.

AND, given LC's track record of NOT producing what they undertake to produce for fundraisers . . .
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by tperry2x »

Not meaning to be boring, but I agree totally with everything you've said above.
I could certainly design a new interface for the IDE.
Whether or not it would be considered 'beautiful' by everyone is doubtful. That's quite a bold claim for them to make (on top of all the other bold claims).
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by tperry2x »

3,342 backers pledged £493,795 to help bring this project to life.


That just hurts. I did throw some funds their way back in the day too. More fool me.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

Well, that session obviously had some sort of effect:
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by tperry2x »

Probably not a huge effect though. It's increased their pot by another $5000, but as you rightly pointed out, on top of the license, there seem to be potential hidden costs.
Likewise, I'm sure those who have contributed to their collection pot won't get a gratis copy of Livecode for a year.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry:
As ever, we’re developing Xavvi on a really tight budget.
https://livecode.com/xavvi/
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I have developed a commercial CD (using LiveCode 1.1) for a company that did NOT ask people to
stump up funding money in advance.

I have been developing Devawriter Pro for some 12 years with no funding in advance (and very few donations subsequently).

I really wonder how many other developers of commercial software ask for donations . . .
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by FourthWorld »

richmond62 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:56 am I really wonder how many other developers of commercial software ask for donations . . .
Crowdfunding sites are searchable. Here's a search for "software" at Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/ad ... m=Software

Among them is a "no code" mobile app builder asking $6,585, rec'd $36,199 so far with eight days to go:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ze ... er-2023-ed
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

Much to my surprise, LiveCode may reach their donation target:
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by tperry2x »

I see Kev and Co have reduced their target from $395k down to $250k
https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates

It does seem like they are picking these figures out of the air.
They've still only raised $53k so far, with 15 days to go. They probably lowered the target as even they could see the other wasn't remotely attainable.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

Well, possibly, "the chickens are coming home to roost" in terms of our friends up north and their track record of doing what they say they will do when they get donated money.

Certainly, after 'someone' blagging money out of people in the 'Covid sofa' episode, it should be clear to quite a few people who can reason from the particular to the general that, like the shepherd boy in Aesop's story; there is probably no 'wolf'.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

Well, despite all sorts of things . . .
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While, apparently, a Kickstarter thing:
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It appears that LiceCode are running this appeal by themselves; so only answerable to themselves (and, possibly, God).
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by FourthWorld »

richmond62 wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am It appears that LiceCode are running this appeal by themselves
IIRC only the 2013 open source crowdfunding was done through Kickstarter; the 2015 HTML export and the various Feature Exchange campaigns have been self-hosted.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

I am extremely surprised considering how many things one might expect of an 'automator' have not been demonstrated,
not been discussed, and show no obvious signs of being in the pipeline.
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, as someone else wrote 'elsewhere':
Of all the different software development systems I've used over the past 30 years, LiveCode is definitely the only one that periodically asks for more money.

I mean, if someone had such a great business idea, surely investors should be found to fund it. Even without begging from users on a regular basis./quote]

It never ceases to amaze me how people will cough up money, sight unseen, for various things:
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.

Post by richmond62 »

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, as someone else wrote 'elsewhere':
Of all the different software development systems I've used over the past 30 years, LiveCode is definitely the only one that periodically asks for more money.

I mean, if someone had such a great business idea, surely investors should be found to fund it. Even without begging from users on a regular basis.
It never ceases to amaze me how people will cough up money, sight unseen, for various things:
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All I can do is congratulate 'that lot', and wait and see what materialises.
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