Let's watch and learn together.
- richmond62
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Let's watch and learn together.
We might be surprised . . .
25 April 2023
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- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Every new version of LC, while, most of the time, having new features, seems to turn up new bugs.
Some of those bugs have been lurking in LC for years.
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Of course, awkward sods like myself either cannot attend, or will find out that for some reason they do not get given mike time.
BUT, were I to have a chance during the 'Q & A' session my questions would go something like this:
1. As LC is chock full of bugs and 'work around' is now a bone stuck in almost every developer's throat, wouldn't
it be a good idea to STOP development of everything and KILL all those bugs completely?
2. Isn't it a bit naughty to:
2.1. Ask for donations towards a commercial development?
2.2. Ask for donations when you have not even fulfilled all the things you said you would do in the previous appeals for donations?
3. Is Xavvi a way of distracting LC users from the problems I have raised in the previous questions?
Some of those bugs have been lurking in LC for years.
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Of course, awkward sods like myself either cannot attend, or will find out that for some reason they do not get given mike time.
BUT, were I to have a chance during the 'Q & A' session my questions would go something like this:
1. As LC is chock full of bugs and 'work around' is now a bone stuck in almost every developer's throat, wouldn't
it be a good idea to STOP development of everything and KILL all those bugs completely?
2. Isn't it a bit naughty to:
2.1. Ask for donations towards a commercial development?
2.2. Ask for donations when you have not even fulfilled all the things you said you would do in the previous appeals for donations?
3. Is Xavvi a way of distracting LC users from the problems I have raised in the previous questions?
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I thought I'd check back again, 'just for fun' [much in the same sort of way my late father described
banging your head on the wall as fun: because it's great when it stops. Miss him every day.]:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... f-livecode
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"Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps"
Well F*ck-Me: it's 10 years later and there is no 'new, beautiful graphical front-end' anywhere is sight . . . and even if the
thing materialises, even though I, and many others, paid for its development, we won't have access to it.
Cut it anyway you like, but that is what my Primary teacher called "ch . . . . . . . .".
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Interesting that 'our friends up north' can get away Scot-free (literally, as well as figuratively) [and I'm a Scot, forbye, sae I sud ken!]
with broken promises and not be held to account.
Many, many people put up with LC's lack of accountability and broken promises because of the Open Source version
and the implied message that those goals would, somehow, materialise over time.
Were we naive, or were we naive?
banging your head on the wall as fun: because it's great when it stops. Miss him every day.]:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... f-livecode
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"Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps"
Well F*ck-Me: it's 10 years later and there is no 'new, beautiful graphical front-end' anywhere is sight . . . and even if the
thing materialises, even though I, and many others, paid for its development, we won't have access to it.
Cut it anyway you like, but that is what my Primary teacher called "ch . . . . . . . .".
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Interesting that 'our friends up north' can get away Scot-free (literally, as well as figuratively) [and I'm a Scot, forbye, sae I sud ken!]
with broken promises and not be held to account.
Many, many people put up with LC's lack of accountability and broken promises because of the Open Source version
and the implied message that those goals would, somehow, materialise over time.
Were we naive, or were we naive?
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
It will be particularly interesting, regardless of what is discussed, if there is a sudden
slew of donations to the kickstarter.
It is interesting to note that donating money to the fundraiser does in no way stop you from having
to pay more money once the thing is ready.
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Doing some calculations with a pencil on the tablecloth, it seems that Xavvi might cost quite a bit.
Certainly, if one wants to use it to make desktop applications, one'll need $3999 per annum.
Although there is a FREE option, it delivers web stuff only, and presupposes an LC licence.
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Crikey! And that's on top of an LC licence.
How the Flying Fudge anyone can expect anyone to stump up $3999 unless they know EXACTLY what they
are buying into I just don't know.
AND, given LC's track record of NOT producing what they undertake to produce for fundraisers . . .
slew of donations to the kickstarter.
It is interesting to note that donating money to the fundraiser does in no way stop you from having
to pay more money once the thing is ready.
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Doing some calculations with a pencil on the tablecloth, it seems that Xavvi might cost quite a bit.
Certainly, if one wants to use it to make desktop applications, one'll need $3999 per annum.
Although there is a FREE option, it delivers web stuff only, and presupposes an LC licence.
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Crikey! And that's on top of an LC licence.
How the Flying Fudge anyone can expect anyone to stump up $3999 unless they know EXACTLY what they
are buying into I just don't know.
AND, given LC's track record of NOT producing what they undertake to produce for fundraisers . . .
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- tperry2x
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Not meaning to be boring, but I agree totally with everything you've said above.
I could certainly design a new interface for the IDE.
Whether or not it would be considered 'beautiful' by everyone is doubtful. That's quite a bold claim for them to make (on top of all the other bold claims).
I could certainly design a new interface for the IDE.
Whether or not it would be considered 'beautiful' by everyone is doubtful. That's quite a bold claim for them to make (on top of all the other bold claims).
- tperry2x
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
3,342 backers pledged £493,795 to help bring this project to life.
That just hurts. I did throw some funds their way back in the day too. More fool me.
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Well, that session obviously had some sort of effect:
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- tperry2x
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Probably not a huge effect though. It's increased their pot by another $5000, but as you rightly pointed out, on top of the license, there seem to be potential hidden costs.
Likewise, I'm sure those who have contributed to their collection pot won't get a gratis copy of Livecode for a year.
Likewise, I'm sure those who have contributed to their collection pot won't get a gratis copy of Livecode for a year.
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I am not sure whether to laugh or cry:
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I have developed a commercial CD (using LiveCode 1.1) for a company that did NOT ask people to
stump up funding money in advance.
I have been developing Devawriter Pro for some 12 years with no funding in advance (and very few donations subsequently).
I really wonder how many other developers of commercial software ask for donations . . .
https://livecode.com/xavvi/As ever, we’re developing Xavvi on a really tight budget.
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I have developed a commercial CD (using LiveCode 1.1) for a company that did NOT ask people to
stump up funding money in advance.
I have been developing Devawriter Pro for some 12 years with no funding in advance (and very few donations subsequently).
I really wonder how many other developers of commercial software ask for donations . . .
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Crowdfunding sites are searchable. Here's a search for "software" at Kickstarter:richmond62 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:56 am I really wonder how many other developers of commercial software ask for donations . . .
https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/ad ... m=Software
Among them is a "no code" mobile app builder asking $6,585, rec'd $36,199 so far with eight days to go:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ze ... er-2023-ed
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Much to my surprise, LiveCode may reach their donation target:
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- tperry2x
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I see Kev and Co have reduced their target from $395k down to $250k
https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates
It does seem like they are picking these figures out of the air.
They've still only raised $53k so far, with 15 days to go. They probably lowered the target as even they could see the other wasn't remotely attainable.
https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates
It does seem like they are picking these figures out of the air.
They've still only raised $53k so far, with 15 days to go. They probably lowered the target as even they could see the other wasn't remotely attainable.
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Well, possibly, "the chickens are coming home to roost" in terms of our friends up north and their track record of doing what they say they will do when they get donated money.
Certainly, after 'someone' blagging money out of people in the 'Covid sofa' episode, it should be clear to quite a few people who can reason from the particular to the general that, like the shepherd boy in Aesop's story; there is probably no 'wolf'.
Certainly, after 'someone' blagging money out of people in the 'Covid sofa' episode, it should be clear to quite a few people who can reason from the particular to the general that, like the shepherd boy in Aesop's story; there is probably no 'wolf'.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
Well, despite all sorts of things . . .
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While, apparently, a Kickstarter thing:
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It appears that LiceCode are running this appeal by themselves; so only answerable to themselves (and, possibly, God).
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While, apparently, a Kickstarter thing:
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It appears that LiceCode are running this appeal by themselves; so only answerable to themselves (and, possibly, God).
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
IIRC only the 2013 open source crowdfunding was done through Kickstarter; the 2015 HTML export and the various Feature Exchange campaigns have been self-hosted.richmond62 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:51 am It appears that LiceCode are running this appeal by themselves
- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I am extremely surprised considering how many things one might expect of an 'automator' have not been demonstrated,
not been discussed, and show no obvious signs of being in the pipeline.
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not been discussed, and show no obvious signs of being in the pipeline.
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- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, as someone else wrote 'elsewhere':
Of all the different software development systems I've used over the past 30 years, LiveCode is definitely the only one that periodically asks for more money.
I mean, if someone had such a great business idea, surely investors should be found to fund it. Even without begging from users on a regular basis./quote]
It never ceases to amaze me how people will cough up money, sight unseen, for various things:
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- richmond62
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Re: Let's watch and learn together.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, as someone else wrote 'elsewhere':
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All I can do is congratulate 'that lot', and wait and see what materialises.
It never ceases to amaze me how people will cough up money, sight unseen, for various things:Of all the different software development systems I've used over the past 30 years, LiveCode is definitely the only one that periodically asks for more money.
I mean, if someone had such a great business idea, surely investors should be found to fund it. Even without begging from users on a regular basis.
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All I can do is congratulate 'that lot', and wait and see what materialises.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
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