WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

After supper, when I sit down in front of a desktop computer as, currently, on our balcony watching the sun go down, drinking gin and tonic, smoking a pipe, reading Oliver Goldsmith, and discussing his assessment of the Russian Zeitgeist with my wife. 8-)
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

https://www.supercard.us/supercard-in-parallels.html

"SuperCard remains a 32-bit application and will continue to be for the foreseeable future."

this, of course, means that in terms of developing programs for current versions of MacOS it is functionally useless.

https://www.supercard.us/faq.html

"Apple has gone back on their promise to deliver 64-bit Carbon frameworks."

Blaming Apple.

Committing Suttee [i.e. committing suicide]:

"SuperCard remains a 32-bit application and will continue to be for the foreseeable future." AGAIN

Silly thing: Mac ONLY restricts developers to a very small market sector.

Shortsighted:

"SuperCard remains a 32-bit application and will continue to be for the foreseeable future." AGAIN

Lazy:

"SuperCard remains a 32-bit application and will continue to be for the foreseeable future." AGAIN

So, SuperCard is no longer simply restricted to MacOS, it is restricted to a shrinking subset of MacOS.

Roll your eyes as much as you like, Richard, but to the average Jo [consider me one of those] reading the SuperCard
website the very strong message seems to be, "Yes, you can buy our product but be aware that is will become increasingly useless."

Why, for the sake of argument, would anyone invest in SuperCard to develop software where they are going to have to tell
clients to downgrade their install of macOS or run an earlier version of macOS in a virtualisation environment to use the thing?

"https://www.supercard.us/supercard-in-parallels.html"

AND, whether the developers of SuperCard are good friends of yours or not, their website sends out distinctly negative signals:
just as I have a friend who is an ESL teacher who gets just about everything so wrong that he has started 3 ESL schools that
have all closed in short order owing to a rapid fall-off of kids: that does not stop my considering the bloke a friend of mine; but
my friendship is not going to make me defend his awful methodology.
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

By way of comparison, let's look at Livecode.

0. While I dislike and disagree with their dropping of the Open Source version, I do understand their reasoning for doing so.

1. LiveCode delivers on Macintosh, Windows, and to a reasonable extent (considering the range of operating systems that are
in some way termed 'Linux' it is amazing) Linux.

2. The LiveCode website does not blame Apple, Microsoft, Shuttleworth, or anyone else for difficulties the LiveCode team
may encounter with new recensions of operating systems [and I assume they had a lot of work to cpe with the Apple
change to ARM processors].
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FourthWorld
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by FourthWorld »

Given your long history of dismissive assessments of the technical skills of the LiveCode team, now extended here to the SuperCard team, Occam's Razor suggests your words exemplify the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

But this may be your moment to shine, Richmond, to correct such perceptions once and for all:

How much experience do you have coding GUI development systems in C and C++, and porting them from Carbon to Cocoa?

Decades?
Years?
Months?
Ever run a make file?

Bonus points if you can explain how you came to believe the SuperCard team controls Apple, which would be needed to make SuperCard responsible for Apple's decision to backpedal on the plan for the OS vendor to deliver a 64-bit Carbon framework.

The one thing you described accurately is the SC site being very candid about the product's limitation while they continue to support their legacy customers. I wouldn't fault anyone for honesty, but perhaps that's a matter of taste.
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

I wonder what makes you feel so superior that you can perpetually demand justifications from me?
the technical skills of the LiveCode team, now extended here to the SuperCard team
If you took the trouble to read my postings carefully you would see that I have never dismissed anyone's technical skills.

What I have done is pointed out some things to do with presentation of products.
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tperry2x
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by tperry2x »

richmond62 wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:00 am "What a Pox:"

https://web.archive.org/web/20110416025 ... signup.php

disnae wark: and there I was (late, very late, to the party, as usual) hoping to play around with the thing.
Try it without the https, http://web.archive.org/web/201104160254 ... signup.php
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

New user TAK1974 is NOT a bot!

Welcome aboard!

Newly registered users must now be approved by a forum admin before their account will be activated.
I think the spam posts have been squashed, but this won't stop spam bots from registering new accounts.
TAK1974
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by TAK1974 »

Hello everyone. I learned Hypercard as a kid, then moved on to SuperCard, and then to LiveCode a few years ago. I've been following the forums for a while and am a huge fan of the work you have all done, and the passion you have to keep xtalk alive. I recognize a few of your names from the SuperCard and LiveCode forums over the years. I look forward to contributing to some of the discussions here.
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richmond62
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by richmond62 »

Come on in, the water's warm, and the sharks don't bite, merely nuzzle your legs. 8-)
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

TAK1974 wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:24 pm I learned Hypercard as a kid
Cool, same!

I was 17yrs old when HC came out, prior to that I only knew a little BASIC (Atari and RadioShack TRS-80 BASIC).
A few years later I was using a lot of AppleScript and working in Print (still do), I would make simple Graphic Interfaces for those scripts with HyperCard. I was also a FutureBASIC user (so I could build XFCNs/XCMDs) and later got into AppleScriptObjC for a bit. I could never get into SuperCard (although I did eventually get a license for SC 4.7.3 as part of 'Humble Bundle'), I just didn't like their IDE. I tried a bunch of other languages along the way (like PASCAL), but none have ever quite fit with my way of thinking as xTalk(s) do.

I don't recall ever hearing about RunRev of LiveCode until about a year after the Crowd Funding campaign to open-source it, but it seemed like a natural, cross-platform evolution of what HyperCard could've been.
The introduction of Extension Builder is really what kept my interest, allowing us to use cool stuff like Apple's CoreMIDI!
TAK1974
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by TAK1974 »

I learned BASIC on a TRS-80 as well. Hypercard on a Mac Classic. I did make a couple XCMD/XFCN using CompileIt and Hypercard. SuperCard IDE is different from LiveCodes. I did like that SuperCard had a project script layer that acted like the mainstack script LiveCode, but was above the stack script layer. I also liked that SuperCard had hooks into speech recognition on the Mac. I was able to do some voice controlled home automation using SuperCard and some shell scripts. I wrote a home accounting app for myself at one point.

I've looked into Python recently, but xtalk just seem so much easier to understand and more efficient code wise.
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overclockedmind
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by overclockedmind »

For me, it was BASIC first on a borrowed VIC-20, tons of carts (hello, RAM expansion!) as well as a cassette deck storage device, and a LOAD of books, magazines, et cetera from the period. Holy cow, did some of those pieces of code have errors in them; seems like more did than did not. I of course was typing ? instead of print and skipping superfluous spaces, to save RAM. Did I have expansion? Yes. Did I generally elect to use it? No, I wanted anything I coded to be runnable on a "stock" machine.

Oddly, I also learned HyperCard at around 17 (believe it was actually earlier, "ninth grade" on this side of the pond) when my high school instructor decided I needed "to program" (he was trying to break me in easy) and I later had a Mac SE/30, which duh had it on there too, at home. I skipped lunch for the $10 to purchase the SE/30... at an amateur radio "hamfest." It also had the OG SimCity on it, which if I'm being honest? I lugged the thing around from one math/science classroom to another by day and coded, and lugged it around at night if I was going/staying someplace (think Grandparents) to play the ever-loving $DEITY out of SimCity.

Welcome to you!
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tperry2x
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by tperry2x »

Welcome Tak,
I look back on the days of owning a classic and messing around with Hypercard. Simpler times, but a lot of fun.
Our school had SE macs with the twin floppy drives (no hard drive, so the boot disk was a floppy that we were always nicking to make copies of) ;)

Kids don't realise how lucky they are these days.

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overclockedmind
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Re: WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME!

Post by overclockedmind »

tperry2x wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:35 am Welcome Tak,
I look back on the days of owning a classic and messing around with Hypercard. Simpler times, but a lot of fun.
Our school had SE macs with the twin floppy drives (no hard drive, so the boot disk was a floppy that we were always nicking to make copies of) ;)

Kids don't realise how lucky they are these days.

Image
You know, those 20 meg hard drives were craptastic, if I remember my facts straight... mine worked for the duration of the time I owned the thing, so I can't complain.

I hear the SE to Classic transition is where we really lost the True 80's machine (like an XT, throw it down the stairs, see if it boots, please no monitor) to Early 90's, which didn't hold up at all nearly as well.

I can eat later, but here's to the SE, in any form.
MBA (Early 2015, 8GB/512G SSD, Monterey 12.7.2)
System76 serv12 (64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, 2TB HD, Win 10 Pro x64)
Power Mac 3,1 Project - Needs TLC will get it soon
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