Poking the fire

[richmond62]

Just saw this:

https://www.redox-os.org/

and:

Source compatibility with Linux/BSD programs

Presumably (?) that means that OXT could be compiled for Redox, but dropping in the Linux executable would not work.

[tperry2x]

Seems to be in the very early stages of development. No 7zip (or even unzip?) command available?
not many packages at all at the moment.

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[richmond62]

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-
Over 'here' (VirtualBox, MacOS 12) I could not get the desktop to scale, and I could not get my mouse captured . . .

[richmond62]

Well, I got the scaling sorted out: but mouse integration is not happening, so functionally useless at the moment.

[tperry2x]

Well, I got the scaling sorted out: but mouse integration is not happening, so functionally useless at the moment.

I did my tests in qemu, so I don't know if that would work better for you in MacOS?
Either way, the OS doesn't seem ready for 'prime time' yet - it's got no idea of mount points, so you can't seem to support multiple volumes with it. - There seems to be no way to format a drive, or mount a drive (USB, internal or even CD). Coupled with no unzip, I think the prospects of running OXT in Haiku are probably more likely.

Speaking of which, RC5 beta of Haiku was released yesterday, so I'll give that a whirl...

[tperry2x]

Well, not quite - "bad data"

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But runs quite happily via wine, and it runs quickly too:

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[richmond62]

I suspect there is a greater chance of OXT running natively on Redox than on Haiku.

AND you got out of bed surprisingly early on an English Sunday.

[tperry2x]

AND you got out of bed surprisingly early on an English Sunday.

haha, I'm always awake at 6am. I seem to have a built in alarm clock for 5:59

[richmond62]

That's like my wife.

On occasion she has suggested I might like to get up on a Sunday at 10 am.

[tperry2x]

It's really weird, as when the clocks in the UK go forward or backward, my internal clock changes too. It's almost like I have a CMOS battery, .
If I didn't get up early, I'm sure it wouldn't be long before the kids woke me up, or the dog wanted to go out, or something similar. No rest for the wicked it seems.

[tperry2x]

Meanwhile, Ravynos seems to have stalled at some point in August last year. I really hope the project isn't dead.
https://mirrors.dotsrc.org/ravynos/nightly/?C=M&O=D
I saw this as potentially the only real alternative to continue running MacOS software - not that it was quite ready for that, but it was a noble attempt to break out of Apple's walled garden.

[tperry2x]

So I'm now going to play with FreeBSD instead and see if LC's claim about the engine running on Unix is at all valid. I suspect it isn't and they meant Linux all along.

[richmond62]

"A coming man already gone."
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[tperry2x]

I'll spare you the long drawn out version, and just report that OXT Lite (and LCC 9.6.x) would not run under RavynOS or FreeBSD. I think it's fair to say the terminology of Unix and Linux must have got confused at some point, but seems to only be Linux. As a general rule, if you can install Chrome or Firefox on it, then it'll work with OpenXTalk Lite and LCC (but not if it's unix-flavoured).

[richmond62]

So: Ha, Ha, Ha . . . this way madness lies . . . are we looking for someone to build a UNIX engine?

[tperry2x]

So: Ha, Ha, Ha . . . this way madness lies . . . are we looking for someone to build a UNIX engine?

No, probably not - I was just intrigued as throughout the user guides, LCC talk about Unix and I just wondered... but no.
I think we have enough on our plate just getting a mac arm engine, along with the proper fixes in place to the most serious crash-inducing bugs on MacOS.

[tperry2x]

Nice to see RavynOS getting a few updates:
https://ravynos.com/releases

Will test 0.52 over the holiday break.
Why am I interested in RavynOS? "Linux apps, and even trivial Darwin & macOS binaries can run on ravynOS".

So my hope is, one day, perhaps even OXT.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

BSD isn't ABI compatible with Linux ABI so that's never going to work on its own, but helloSystem (which is somewhat related to rayvnOS) can install a 'Ubuntu compatibility' overlay .pkg that lets linux software run ( virtualization I guess ), and OXT DPE RC4 .AppImage almost worked with it but had a problem with the startup licensing check embedded stack. Need to try it with the updated Linux binary.

GNUStep, with the right theming and global menu bar set, can get you close to MacOS like experience, and GNUStep framework includes versions of the apps that became standard macOS apps, like Mail.app, TextEdit.app, etc. There was a build of Darwin spun back around 2013 that was like a mix of PureDarwin-BSD+GNUStep+macOS-theme/menu mod that was sort of an early version helloSystem. I can't remember what it was called by I think I have a copy saved it in my archives.

EDIT, I think I found it here, called LIVEStep: https://github.com/probonopd/LIVEstep
Although the window decorations in that screenshot look more like NeXT than macOS, I know there are GNUStep themes that are very Mac-like.

helloSystem takes a different approach though, building a custom desktop and 'filer' app to that behave Mac-like but the apps are FreeBSD ports and the UIs are built with Python+Qt. He's not going for macOS ABI compatibility like rayvnOS is.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

Oh here's another just found:
https://github.com/gershwin-os/system

[tperry2x]

BSD isn't ABI compatible with Linux ABI so that's never going to work on its own...He's not going for macOS ABI compatibility like rayvnOS is.

That's just it - I was interested in RayvnOS as a replacement for running OSX, not a replacement for running Linux. Think of the possibility of running the native MacOS version of OXT (and any MacOS apps one day) on any intel hardware (although they have work to do with graphics cards). - and without all the codesigning BS - that makes it worthwhile alone.

Oh here's another just found:
https://github.com/gershwin-os/system

I looked at Gershwin-OS before, but it's essentially just copying the appearance of OSX using BSD Unix - it's not aiming to be 100% compatible, using MacOS application bundles.

I find it interesting though that there's enough people interested (perhaps dissatisfied) with Apple's approach and direction they are going with the OS - enough to want to come up with their own projects (which isn't a trivial thing to do).

I've always liked Apple's design and elegance, but am not thrilled with the direction of recent macOS® or how closed the hardware has become. And I'm a big believer in open source. So ... let's build something that feels as elegant, without all the lock-in, and maybe (just maybe) I can get it to a point that reasonably useful Mac apps build & run on it. And if not, we'll build a lot of cool pieces along the way and learn a ton. I'm OK with that.