Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Updates on the progress of this project
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OpenXTalkPaul
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Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

Happy New Year all!
I've uploaded a Mac 64bit Intel DMG for downloading and testing here:

https://github.com/OpenXTalk-org/OpenXt ... PE_RC3.dmg

The Mac version is my "daily driver" xTalk IDE, it works well enough for me.
There is still some "lag" shortly after the App launches, which I think is because it writes actually always writes the prefs file every launch, to which the previous peoples had inserted a delay to try to make it less noticeable I guess. I'm not sure why they did this at all. They could've had it write only when there's a change to preferences, or at least do the full writing when the user quits out of the IDE. I find this 'lag' rather annoying, particularly when I'm running the IDE off of a fast NVMe M2 drive, so I'l look into changing that at some point.

Oh it's not code-signed, which IMO that whole Apple "signed+notarize" thing is b.s. that harms devs and consumers and is really there to keep things under Apple's control, an isolated system, allegedly in the name of security. Still I may fall in line with that at some point, but not for now.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

OK: here goes:

MacOS 13.2 "Ventura":

Stupid Question #1:
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Yes, I agree that all that rigmarole with code-signing is Apple being over officious and controlly, BUT:
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Why can you not roll the 'Open First.app' thing up with the App so that it will just work on the first run?
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Stupid Question #2:

What is the file size overhead?

LiveCode 9.6.3 Community weighs in at 1.63 GB,

and OXT weighs 1.93
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

I have installed OpenXTalk 1.963.1rc3.app (kinda clunky name) into
a folder called 'LiveCode' inside my Home folder as I have quite a few versions of LC there.

Dunno why it wanted to access my DropBox files: I did NOT allow it to.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

First: Aesthetics . . .

. . . generally I have my Mac Mini with Dark mode, and have done ever since that became possible.

BUT:
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does NOTHING for me, and I was disappointed that I could find now way to set OXT to look like this:
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without setting the whole Macintosh GUI to Light mode.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Exploring the Preference of OXT:
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Lovely addition. 8-)
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

What is this?
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And this?
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And this?
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Lots of rev~ prefixes:
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by micmac »

Thank you Paul!!!

WOW, Mac before Windows, that is luxury for me :D

The App:
If it does not open and you get a dialog, then after launching the app you need to go to Applemenu > Systemsettings > Securety and Annonymity... and confirm: Open Anyway

Open first:
If it does not open and you get a dialog then:
In Terminal:

Type: xattr -dr com.apple.quarantine. [or just copy the line into Terminal]
Press: Spacekey one time
Drag and drop the app into Terminal
Press: Return

Mic
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

What Richmond views as a fairly groovy test: opening the latest code stack of his
Devawriter Pro app . . .
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

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Text input:
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Script Editor:
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

I am extremely impressed by your work!

As far as I can tell this should be absolutely 100% OK for development.

The remaining question is how it copes producing standalones.

My only gripe is re the Dark Mode matter.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Running off a Mac standalone showed up a blip that I was not previously aware of:
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The stack open in OXT is on the left, the Mac standalone is on the right.

In the stack the field contents are not visible.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

Aha: I have found the weasel in the woodpile (the Dark Mode I don't like):
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Quite frankly that screws up the Dark Mode completely: and I am not
convinced of any requirement for a dark Mode at all.

LiveCode looks fine on MacOS 13 where the GUI is set to Dark Mode but the LC GUI is as usual:
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:44 am OK: here goes:

MacOS 13.2 "Ventura":

Stupid Question #1:
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Yes, I agree that all that rigmarole with code-signing is Apple being over officious and controlly, BUT:
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Why can you not roll the 'Open First.app' thing up with the App so that it will just work on the first run?
I COULD actually make a script (or .pkg installer) that does both creating the dummy license file (which simply prevents that obsolete LC account creation embedded stack from appearing when the IDE is launched) AND then handles copying the IDE to the Apps (if you have admin privs) or another user folder (in case you don't have admin privs on that mac) in one step, or perhaps with a bit more research could bypass that stack and load the main executable entry point (which is an Objective C method pointed to by the info.plist)...however I don't want to spend time working on that when the time would be better spent working to recompile the engines WITHOUT that useless embedded stack (which I see some people raised this issue when they first embedded that stack years ago).

That applet was mostly an experiment in creating the needed file and enclosing USER directory structure without admin privs via AppleScript applet, but It probably would only take a few more lines of script to have it do the copying to app folder bit. If you don't have admin privs then you cannot copy the app to the apps folder (but you CAN copy it to directory that you do have read/write privs to ;) ). IF you already have LC Community (or I guess any version) installed, THEN the folders and file already exist and there is no need to run that applet as it won't actually do anything in such a case. It's mostly cosmetic, although it does make it take a tiny bit more time to launch the IDE, on every single launch, to check if the file exists, and so I want to remove it entirely to speed up launching the IDE. IF you do see the LC account-create stack pop-up, you can click the cancel button and it will still create the needed file and then quits itself.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by micmac »

Skærmbillede 2023-01-02 kl. 17.33.59.jpg
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If you turn Dark Mode off in Prefs, then the two top icons in the ToolPalette become "invisible".

They are visible on hover.

Mic
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

(which I see some people raised this issue when they first embedded that stack years ago)
Well, our friends always had this pose that they were responsive and acted on end-user feedback: and this got really
hyped up when the Community version was launched . . .

. . . from my point of view one of the reasons why there was very little 'community' input, insofar as ideas from the useer community being implemented, was, despite the pose, our friends gave very little sign of truly listening, and this was perhaps most obvious when they shouted a lot about user-responsiveness during their fund-raiser, and then quietly forgot about a lot of what they had shouted.

So, if there be things 'there' that were questioned years ago, often for sensible reasons, you can be sure that a lot of them are the result
of our friends riding rough-shod over any feedback they had.

What our friends perhaps did not realise is that if you 'open things up to the floor' as they did, you will get a lot of unpalatable stuff
(at least some of which may be true) as well as the tasty morsels you had hoped for.

So, I am quite sure the 'thing' can be pruned quite a bit, and a lot of dead wood can be removed.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

richmond62 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:52 am Stupid Question #2:

What is the file size overhead?

LiveCode 9.6.3 Community weighs in at 1.63 GB,

and OXT weighs 1.93
There's several things making the whole thing a bit larger:

I've added a few new widgets and library extensions. The largest of these is the FluidSynth library, which has dependency libraries (such as libSndFile) included with it, as well as a small (low fi) General MIDI sound font. FluidSynth is NOT actually needed to play musical notes on macOS as the OS already includes everything needed to play musical notes and MIDI files.

I added icons to the IDE (OXT as well as the HC compatibility icons) and further I made some slight modifications to some IDE Widgets that were already included in LC CE so that they can be displayed and used from the Tools palette. For example the 'Tile' widget, was previously hidden, and only used by the IDE, and is not is not a fully completed 'Widget'. I've made a "Tile Plus" from this, which is a bit more complete Widget with more properties and such, and that can be downloaded and installed from the (also added) OXT Resource Repo from a new Extension Manager stack tab.

The dictionary is slightly larger, I've included docs / guides for APIs and things that were previously not included in the Dictionary.

There's probably a significant amount of unmodified or earlier version copies of various scripts and resources that I've made changes to along the way. I've kept some of these along with the new versions so that I can use DIFF tools to compare the old vs new, in case there's any unforeseen problems with the changes (to "spaghetti" code). The largest such file is probably the Emscripten Engine .JS file, which I made an 'Unminified' prettified version of for inspecting it. That file is almost twice as large as the original minified version that the IDE actually deploys. The rest of those files probably don't add much size wise, although for images I created there's probably also some Illustrator or Photoshop layered PSD work files in those folders, which can be large. These extra copies can all be removed.
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Re: Happy New Year, the OXT DPE RC3 Mac Disk Image Has Now been uploaded!

Post by richmond62 »

If you turn Dark Mode off in Prefs, then the two top icons in the ToolPalette become "invisible".
Indeed:
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