Progress report

[tperry2x]

Quick progress report re OpenXTalk Lite

I'm currently testing on all three major platforms at the moment, to see if I can catch any errors I've not yet fixed.
Just so that above statement isn't scrutinised further, I'll clarify now: that's fixing any errors that I can fix that are in the IDE.

You'll be glad to read that I've sorted out the shortcuts fighting with eachother, as they were trying to be set in multiple places at once.

There are already a lot of bugfixes in 0.99 that I'll detail in the release notes nearer the time (soon).

The 0.99 build is all about optimisations, and the IDE is a lot faster to boot. Menus are a lot more responsive. (lots of script cleanup)

Just thought I'd post a quick video, as I think it's a lot faster to launch. (this is not edited and is in realtime)
https://www.tsites.co.uk/otherstuff/sim ... 4-1743.mp4
IDE load time: 2.6 seconds
(Responsive at 3 seconds)
Able to make a new window at 5 seconds (but that's factoring in the time it took me to test the menu)

Test PC (mid/low-end) specs used in the video:
Processor: i5 (4th gen) @ 2GHz
Ram: 8GB
Boot drive: SSD - sata (TCSUNBOW v3)
OS: Debian Linux 12 Bookworm 64bit

Not that this matters a great deal - but it should be drastically faster to launch on an M-series mac, or anything with a higher spec processor (like a modern i9 or something). It's really to illustrate that it's a lot more efficient at loading the IDE than it was. Hopefully that will benefit older hardware too.

[overclockedmind]

Quick progress report re OpenXTalk Lite

I'm currently testing on all three major platforms at the moment, to see if I can catch any errors I've not yet fixed.
Just so that above statement isn't scrutinised further, I'll clarify now: that's fixing any errors that I can fix that are in the IDE.

You'll be glad to read that I've sorted out the shortcuts fighting with eachother, as they were trying to be set in multiple places at once.

There are already a lot of bugfixes in 0.99 that I'll detail in the release notes nearer the time (soon).

The 0.99 build is all about optimisations, and the IDE is a lot faster to boot. Menus are a lot more responsive. (lots of script cleanup)

Just thought I'd post a quick video, as I think it's a lot faster to launch. (this is not edited and is in realtime)
https://www.tsites.co.uk/otherstuff/sim ... 4-1743.mp4
IDE load time: 2.6 seconds
(Responsive at 3 seconds)
Able to make a new window at 5 seconds (but that's factoring in the time it took me to test the menu)

Test PC (mid/low-end) specs used in the video:
Processor: i5 (4th gen) @ 2GHz
Ram: 8GB
Boot drive: SSD - sata (TCSUNBOW v3)
OS: Debian Linux 12 Bookworm 64bit

Not that this matters a great deal - but it should be drastically faster to launch on an M-series mac, or anything with a higher spec processor (like a modern i9 or something). It's really to illustrate that it's a lot more efficient at loading the IDE than it was. Hopefully that will benefit older hardware too.

Exactly at the end there with the older machines, in Linux... you might have just taken some earlier hardware from "I can't stand how this runs" to "this is a viable development environment for me."

[tperry2x]

you might have just taken some earlier hardware from "I can't stand how this runs" to "this is a viable development environment for me."

Fingers crossed - as long as those Linux computers aren't running ubuntu / xfce
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtop ... 5789#p5789

https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=610

By the way, version 0.99 is now posted.
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtop ... 4646#p4646

[richmond62]

What is wrong with Ubuntu (apart from the crap interface that MicroSoft may or may not have ripped off for Windows "9")?

What is wrong with Xubuntu (Ubuntu + XFCE)?

What is wrong with XFCE? [This because it is my favourite: especially strapped onto Debian.]

Here's a reason that, whenever I take a screenshot I go for either black ot dark blue:
-

SShot 2024-01-15 at 12.16.44.png (87.55 KiB) Viewed 1282 times

-
Or, as they say in Gaelic, "Fioch" ( which is pronounced /fich/).

ANd as we say in Scots, "gaes us the dry boak."
-
I do not care just what your desktop picture "of choice" is, but it makes me forfechan when you yaise it in a fillum as it distracks fae the importaint jalousement o the fillum.

[tperry2x]

What is wrong with Ubuntu (apart from the crap interface that MicroSoft may or may not have ripped off for Windows "9")?
What is wrong with Xubuntu (Ubuntu + XFCE)?
What is wrong with XFCE? [This because it is my favourite: especially strapped onto Debian.]

Nothing. I like it.
It's just that the engine doesn't.
As mentioned multiple times, this is why the OXT lite distro I made does not use either.

[tperry2x]

I do not care just what your desktop picture "of choice" is, but it makes me forfechan when you yaise it in a fillum as it distracks fae the importaint jalousement o the fillum.

Sorry, I don't understand?
You don't like the desktop - that's not the focus here, so please ignore that part.

[tperry2x]

(don't I just love putting out a new release, only to have the work I've done thrown back at me)
I'd steer you towards:

How you can help
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=674

[richmond62]

Sorry, I don't understand?

Well, that's one in the eye for those silly English academics who state that Scots is 'just' a dialect of English, and, as such, is fully comprehensible to English people.

So: here's an owersettan intil Sudron (as we say in Scots):

I do not care just what your desktop picture "of choice" is, but it makes me forfechan when you yaise it in a fillum as it distracks fae the importaint jalousement o the fillum.

I do not care just what your desktop picture "of choice" is, but it makes me ever so slightly fucked off when you use it in a film as it distracts from the focus and understanding of the film .

[tperry2x]

(Whoever is thinking about making YouTube videos for OXT, please bear this in mind). In case we risk F*ing off Richmond.

I do not care just what your desktop picture "of choice" is

(good, so why raise this point in the first place?)

, but it makes me forfechan when you yaise it in a fillum as it distracks fae the importaint jalousement o the fillum.

Please don't take offence when I can't understand what you typed. I don't feel the need to comment back in old norfolk dialect. It's not necessary and does not help anyone trying to follow updates.

Am I wrong for saying this, or are my points above valid? You decide. I'll come back when 1.0 is ready.

[richmond62]

The point is that screenshots and instructional movies are BEST made against a neutral-coloured background that does not detract from the point of what one is trying to convey.

And, I bain't zhure wazz wrang wi Norfolk dialeck, just az my Zummerzet zhud not be a problem fer thikk.

As a speaker of "Standard" Inglis, Somerset Inglis, Gallovidian Scots, Orcadian Scots, and Angus/Fife Scots, I rejoice in being able to use all those to a linguistic advantage.

[Kdjanz]

I rejoice in being able to use all those to a linguistic advantage.

Bullshit Richmond. You are the only one who has the slightest idea of what you are trying to say and communication dies completely.

I'd call that a disadvantage.

[richmond62]

Lighten up: sometimes the seriousness get too much.

[TerryL]

Sorry, I can never find the original posts.

o $Recycle.Bin. On Win10 I could rename a text file to "$Recycle.Bin", but it didn't move itself to the recycle bin. There is a CSIDL specialFolderPath("0x000a") for the recycle bin, but I couldn't get it or any other CSIDL value to work. There's no specialFolderPath("recycle bin").

Code: Select all

on mouseUp
   --rename file specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/Test.txt" to specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/Test2.txt"  --works, file renamed on desktop
   --rename file specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/Test.txt" to "$Recycle.Bin"  --works, file renamed on desktop, not moved to recycle bin.
   --rename file specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/Test.txt" to specialFolderPath("0x000a") &"/Test.txt"  --recycle bin, result: can't rename file.
   --if there is a file specialFolderPath("0x000a") &"/Test.txt" then answer "Yes"  --recycle bin, result: folder not found.
   if there is a file specialFolderPath("0x000e") &"/Test.txt") then answer "Yes"  --my video, result: folder not found.
   put result()
end mouseUp

o Keyboard Shortcuts. If new keyboard shortcuts are finalized, post a .txt list and I'll update the User Guide Shortcuts section and post it.

o Help menu. As I understand, the Help menu is required to be the last menu and its last two menuItems be a line and About (code moves About to proper location on Mac. Is that not happening?). The rest is our choice.

LCC 9.6.3 Help Menu:
Start Center, User Guide, Dictionary (API), -, Sample Stacks, Sample Scripts, -, Beginners Guide, All Guides, Tutorials, -, Forums, Technical Questions, Discussion List, Newsletters, -, Release Notes, License Agreement, -, Buy a License..., Support..., -, Re-license LiveCode, -, Check For Updates, -, About LiveCode
----
OXT Lite .90 Help Menu:
Dictionary, User Guide, Data Grid Guide, Tutorials, -, Forums, Sample Stacks, Lessons, Donate, -, Release Notes, -, About
----
Suggested OXT Lite Help Menu:
Dictionary, User Guide, Data Grid Guide, All Guides, Tutorials, -, Forums, Sample Stacks, Lessons, Check For Updates, Donate, -, Release Notes, -, About
----

LC Ltd placed the Data Grid Guide on their website and the Extension Guide (Widgets) in the dictionary. In the later 9x series they combined the three in a monolithic pdf with updated text and graphics that rendered poorly. It was intimidating and slow to search. I elected to separate the User Guide and Data Grid Guide pdfs again without graphics when debranding, updating, and enhancing. I added to and improved many chapters of the Data Grid Guide. I assumed the vast majority of users would never make a widget so ignored the large Extension Guide.

Would you consider restoring the Data Grid Guide.pdf and "Tour" stacks in the Help menu? Accurate documentation is very difficult to make. I'd encourage making all help resources available to users, even LC Lessons and Sample Stacks from their websites. We all learn in different ways. I'd vote to put everything in so the user can make their own choices.

[tperry2x]

o Keyboard Shortcuts. If new keyboard shortcuts are finalized, post a .txt list and I'll update the User Guide Shortcuts section and post it.

Hi Terry.
I think Keyboard shortcuts are finalised. I assume so, unless anyone else wants to add more? They currently are:

menus.png (332.84 KiB) Viewed 1177 times

o Help menu. As I understand, the Help menu is required to be the last menu and its last two menuItems be a line and About (code moves About to proper location on Mac. Is that not happening?). The rest is our choice.

The last menu shown is the help menu, however I don't know why we'd require any specific order of menuitems within this help menu?

I'm a bit puzzled why you mention that the about menu should be under 'help' on the mac? Or do you mean the code in the IDE to move the about menu to the 'name of the program' when running in MacOS, like these examples:

about-menus.png (34.72 KiB) Viewed 1174 times

Under Linux and Windows, as you know, the IDE does not enforce where the "About" option is, so that's why it's shown in the 'help' menu.
I can confirm that in OpenXTalk lite, the about menuitem is being automatically moved to where you'd expect it to be:

it is.png (6.58 KiB) Viewed 1173 times

Suggested OXT Lite Help Menu:
Dictionary, User Guide, Data Grid Guide, All Guides, Tutorials, -, Forums, Sample Stacks, Lessons, Check For Updates, Donate, -, Release Notes, -, About

In your above list, the 'Tutorials' - we don't currently have anything to put in here I'm afraid. We don't really have sample stacks either - unless we open a web browser and a URL to somewhere. Has anyone agreed we are going to start asking for donations at v1.0? I get the feeling there's a lot of conversation around this that I've not seen / not been a part of? Release notes can either open a PDF or the text file (or the section in the user guides - "allguides.oxtstack" stack.
We can have them arranged any way you'd like, but I'd like a consensus for everyone to agree.

Would you consider restoring the Data Grid Guide.pdf and "Tour" stacks in the Help menu? Accurate documentation is very difficult to make.

Of course, I can put these back if you have finalised versions that don't have any LC branding. I'll include them in the v1.0 build.

I'd encourage making all help resources available to users, even LC Lessons and Sample Stacks from their websites

I'm not so sure about that last part. I'm trying to remove all mention of LC and their branding. That has been done by Paul's debranding of the documentation, and by myself when I carried these through to the editable allguides stack. I really don't want to put things from LC's website in there either. I think the two programs (livecode and OXT Lite) should be kept apart and distanced from eachother as much as possible. That's my view anyway, I don't know if anyone else shares that thought?

After all, that was my initial goal - to eliminate LC branding in the IDE. (That's what started me off changing anything to begin with, and was my original motivation).

[TerryL]

o Keyboard Shortcuts. I've got the screenshot. I'll work on it.
o Help Menu. About location is not questioned, good that is working fine. Shame to lose LC's lessons but they may balk at being referenced.

Very impressed with what you've done. Congratulations on Lite .99. Terry

[tperry2x]

Shame to lose LC's lessons but they may balk at being referenced.

That was exactly my opinion too. I'd have liked to keep them in, but they could have complained that we'd copied something we shouldn't have. I do have all the linked files downloaded from everywhere I could find them referenced (and if you find a zip file referenced in the allguides stack, it's actually already included for you in the IDE - so no broken links). Along with an old version of Apple's Human Interface guidelines, as that's what the original one referenced.
I'm not at all adverse to including everything the guide references, because one thing I've noticed when going through it, was how 90% of all the links were dead/broken as the guide had not kept pace with online site changes.

[tperry2x]

I can't find the original post now, but I believe it was Paul who mentioned about having objects with pre-made scripts on them. Just to note, you can kind of do this already:

https://www.tsites.co.uk/otherstuff/mac ... ts-new.mp4

[tperry2x]

o Keyboard Shortcuts. I've got the screenshot. I'll work on it.

If it makes anything easier, please see attached.
(Will be updated in user guides > The IDE > Keyboard Shortcuts)

[TerryL]

@ tperry. Attached is the User Guide with updated keyboard shortcuts, Data Grid Guide, and other files for the Help menu.

[tperry2x]

Attached is the User Guide with updated keyboard shortcuts, Data Grid Guide, and other files for the Help menu.

Thanks for this TerryL
Do you mean something like this? There's a lot to take in on this screenshot, however this shows the new layout of the help menu - I hope that's the order of things that you had in mind.

You'll note on that screenshot, that I've changed your wording slightly, only so we aren't referencing any current LC site. I've mentioned that you based your lessons on the open source community examples.

I hope that's okay.

composite.png (494.09 KiB) Viewed 1028 times

(The "Data Grid Tour", and the "SQLite Tour" stacks will be included in the linked_files, so that there will be links within the lessons stack on the relevant pages).