OpenXTalk Forums

Well, lookee-here: grab 'em while they last:

http://mrsbarrass.co.uk/download.html

I think that for the Macintosh version you will need a PPC machine.

This version might work on early INTEL Macs:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140623015 ... 00Full.dmg
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Aha: here's Revmedia 4 running on an INTEL Mac:
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Interesting, but don't these versions of the Revolution engines need a serial number or license of some kind to run?

EDIT: downloaded to check, never mind! Thanks for the links.

I'm most interested in the old theming methods used. I'm looking to make a general use "dark theme", the IDE sticks out like a sore thumb in my now almost entirely "darkMode" setup.

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm Interesting, but don't these versions of the Revolution engines need a serial number or license of some kind to run?

EDIT: downloaded to check, never mind! Thanks for the links.

What did you find? Were those promo builds LC distributed?

I found these on that "Mrs Barrass" page via a simple web search, and they are described as 'alpha' and come with install numbers.

[I do have licensed versions of RevMedia 4 stable backed up in my private respository, but took my screen shots from the alpha things
as am NOT going to upload stuff that is privately licensed to me for public consumption.]

As I, certainly, have no interest in them beyond having a look at what they offered then I do not feel I am "doing the pirate thing",
especially as RevMedia 4 cannot produce standalones, and the IDEs would not get very far on most contemporary machines.

I do think that LiveCode might like to consider releasing "this sort of thing" with "this sort of functuanality" as learning tools as
I regard their recent "full on" decision as a suicidal nose dive.

From my own, slightly selfish, educational view point, these RevMedia 4 things, were they runnable on 64 bit Linux boxes
would quite suffice for the sort of stuff I teach to 8-16 year olds every summer: and were they also available for MacOS 10.9 +
at 64 bit, and Windows 8, 10 & 11, so that children could have them installed on their own machines for homework and so
on then that would be wonderful. I fail to see how LiveCode could see this as anything but gain.

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The relevance of this discussion "over here", rather than on the LiveCode forums themselves is that there does not seem to be much
of an appetite for any such discussions over there at all at the moment.

the IDE sticks out like a sore thumb in my now almost entirely "darkMode" setup.

Quite possibly, but if my motto it is anything it is "Functionality before Aesthetics".

Tweaking the interface of an IDE so it goes 'dark' or 'sepia' or 'sky-blue-pink' is a minor
consideration after one has found the functionality that suits one's purpose.

A very serious thing to consider is the way all the LC bits-n-bobs have been repackaged in a significantly
less accessible fashion since their much-vaunted refactor a few years ago; a repackaging that makes
appearance hacking more, not less, of a bother.

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To transform the IDE to look like this should be easy enough (especially as all the graphic components are already provided),
and, ideally, if one is going for the Charcoal aesthetic, to transform the Aqua revTool objects to greyScale ones as well.
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Just run these through a batch converter to transform them to greyScale:
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Well I think dark mode support is more than just aesthetics or changing some colors/images.

For one thing not having to constantly light up as many pixels on a screen saves battery power, very important for mobile/laptop users!
And two, it’s a popular trend in software these days, and one that’s been growing in popularity for a few years now (I think it was first partially introduced in macOS 10.10, about 7 or 8 years ago!) So if you want your software to look modern, you’d better support it now.

Personally I find it easier on the eyes and think it has a certain “cool” factor.

If you’re on macOS and using v.9.x, you can try my macOS tools Builder extension’s darkMode handler, it can instantly put the entire IDE into darkMode, at the system level where even the window title bars / window frames are dark with reversed/white text. But that needs some work, scripts to make some things in the IDE look correct in that mode, and still be switchable back to light mode.

https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/LCB_macOSTools

Load that and then call setLCToDarkMode from within the IDE

I should add that I assume that LC must have some intention to support dark mode more, since they added some “Dark Mode Detection” in recent versions.

The systemAppearance keyword (which the dictionary says has existed since v.1.0) now returns Dark or Light depending on the macOS system settings, and the engine passes a systemAppearanceChanged message to the default Stack, which doesn’t seem to work in the IDE (probably because default mainStack is really the Home stack in the IDE), but I’ve confirmed it does work properly in a Standalone Mac app.

RevMedia 4 Linux
- RevMedia 4 Windows running via WINE
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Oddly enough (?) I was able to install those versions of revMedia 4 directly onto a 64-bit machine running Xubuntu 21.10
and have them up-and-running in about 4 minutes.

This may say something fairly rude about Apple, their closed universe and extreme lack of backward compatibility than anything else,
as the "newest" thing I could get to run RevMedia 4 was a 32-bit, 2006 Polycarbonate INTEL Mac running MacOS 10.6.8.

This is almost 100% irrelevant to any discussions here, but one thing it does prove is that get some form of "LiveCode" up-and-running
for basic teaching purposes is dead easy.

I have had, as proof-of-concept, Windows versions of "LiveCode" running on React OS.

So . . .
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What on earth do I do next?

richmond62 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:01 am So . . .
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SShot 2021-10-21 at 14.00.56.png
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What on earth do I do next?

^ THIS is an area I think REALY needs some clear interactive lesson to help people get the idea. I really think LC Ltd. hasn't done anywhere near enough to promote Builder to its existing base, let alone as a point of attraction for potential newcomers!

So here's a quick tutorial:

From IDE Edit Menu Select -> Extension Builder
This will bring up the Extention Builder stack:
Navigate the open file dialog to the extention folder and select the .lcb file.
Important: there can be only one .lcb per folder or it will not compile and give an incorrect error that there''s no lcb file in the folder.

Then you can either temporarily test compile & load the Builder extension
OR Install the Builder extension into the IDE / Dictionary.
NOTE: You may have to restart the IDE for the new handlers to show up in the dictionary.

When you install an extension into the IDE in this way, it goes into your "My OpenXTalk" folder, rather than into the IDE.
Only the extensions that were included in release, such as the now extensively used by the IDE "SVG Icon", are in the IDE folder.

If you test load the extension it gets compiled and temporarily loaded into memory. If the extension is a widget it will automatically make a new temporary stack with an instance of the widget placed on it. I don't think the entries for any newly available handlers get added to the dictionary if you test load, only if you actually install.

NOTE: I'm currently renaming & changing the identifiers of my Builder extensions to org.oxt.paulmcclernan.extention_name_here because I was thinking we might be including some pre-installed in the IDE for a release of OXT.

Thank you v. much for those instructions.

I will "give them a go" after my teaching today (in about 3 hours).

LiveCode have NEVER shone in the instructional department: one has to "ungeek" oneself
to a large extent to think oneself back into the mind of a learner.

richmond62 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:45 pm Thank you v. much for those instructions.

I will "give them a go" after my teaching today (in about 3 hours).

LiveCode have NEVER shone in the instructional department: one has to "ungeek" oneself
to a large extent to think oneself back into the mind of a learner.

You're welcome!
Thanks for spurring me into finally making some sort of basic introduction to Builder.
I made it into a slightly more in-depth tutorial as a sticky post on a new Builder sub-forum:
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=15

richmond62 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:45 pm I will "give them a go" after my teaching today (in about 3 hours).

LiveCode have NEVER shone in the instructional department: one has to "ungeek" oneself
to a large extent to think oneself back into the mind of a learner.

Please let me know how you make out with it, particularly if you think there's something that's not entirely clear about those instructions (the ones in the Builder sub-forum sticky post).

And I agree, LC team often seems to assume a certain level of pre-existing knowlege when providing instructions.
I'm working on ungeeking myself. Taking lessons from team HyperCard that were great at ungeeking IMO!

I was suprised to find this RevMedia post on Livecode forums. Was RevMedia the free version they used to have?
I tried this out, the Message Box is broken.

RevMedia was the first free version that Runtime Revolution offered that:

1. Did NOT have a 10 line code restriction on an unpaid-for version.