Comments on 1.01

[tperry2x]

What's the build number of 1.01 you are using - are the updates applied?
Try toggling with cmd M a few times if the updates aren't yet done.

[richmond62]

The updates are not applied because, as with MacOS 12, I am unable to apply them.

The build number is hard to tell as this is dimmed out:
-

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[tperry2x]

That's in the help menu > IDE information.
Should give you the exact build number there.

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or, you can also get it from preferences > automatic updates (shown at the bottom right of the window).

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The updates are not applied because, as with MacOS 12, I am unable to apply them.

Okay, that's interesting. Why is that the case?

[richmond62]

That's in the help menu > IDE information.
Should give you the exact built number there.

202403042130

[tperry2x]

That explains it. You don't have the up to date build, so the updates to the message box and also the "save as" dialog won't be in place.
What is the issue preventing you from updating in MacOS 12?

[richmond62]

HERE: on MacOS 14:

mv: rename /Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript to /Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript: No such file or directory

Which is very odd:
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[tperry2x]

mv: rename /Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript to /Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript: No such file or directory

"mv: rename" isn't a valid command on MacOS.

It should just be mv (move).

I also don't understand why the " to " is being inserted.
The correct code would be:

mv "/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript" "/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

Or, you can just move it from "Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/" and replace the file yourself.
I wonder if the move command has changed?

When you open the terminal, does it say "bash" or "zsh"?
It should be a bash shell, otherwise the commands are indeed different.

[richmond62]

That quote is part of what my Terminal emulator spat out when I ran your 'SH' file.

sudo mv -f '/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript' '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/'
sudo rm -f '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo touch '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo chmod 766 '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo echo '202403061500' >> '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo rm -f '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo touch '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo chmod 766 '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo echo '1.01' >> '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'

Terminal:

Last login: Fri Mar 8 14:27:40 on ttys000
richmond@Richmonds-Mac-mini ~ % sudo mv -f '/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript' '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/'
sudo rm -f '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo touch '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo chmod 766 '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo echo '202403061500' >> '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo rm -f '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo touch '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo chmod 766 '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo echo '1.01' >> '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
Password:
mv: rename /Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript to /Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript: No such file or directory
richmond@Richmonds-Mac-mini ~ %

[tperry2x]

That quote is part of what my Terminal emulator spat out when I ran your 'SH' file.

You don't run the SH file. You copy and paste it into a terminal, having run su [return] + your admin password first.
The steps are here, if it helps

[richmond62]

That gave me no joy:
-

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-
So: I posted the script into my Terminal emulator, then it wanted my password, and then I pasted the script again, and got what I reported.

[tperry2x]

The second line of that command is doing the right thing:
mv -f '/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript' '/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/'

That is moving the revidelibrary.8.livecodescript into the right place.
If you look at the top of that screenshot you've just sent, you can see you are in a zsh shell (the window title).

You need to change it to Bash. (Apple changed the shell from bash to ZSH in an update).
That's why your commands aren't working.

However, you may have just totally confused it now because I'm not sure it'll grab the file for you again if it thinks it's been updated (but hasn't)

[richmond62]

rename /Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript to /Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript

If you 'unpick' that you'll realise it's wonky:

Why would I want to RENAME this: "/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

to this: "/Users/richmond/xTalk/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

It makes little or NO sense .

In "Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/" ALL I have is a file called "update.log"

[richmond62]

You can come over here and 'bash' me on the head if you want, but my brain is already so numb I cannot for the life of me work out what is the difference between 'bash', 'ZSH', or even 'WTF'.

It might be 'not a bad thing', instead of doing this type of upgrading, that requires computer mages to effect, to issue, say OXT Lite version 1.0.1.1.

[tperry2x]

If you 'unpick' that you'll realise it's wonky

Yes, I can see it's very wonky.
Let me start by saying:

Why would I want to RENAME this: "/Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript"

You wouldn't rename this. You only need to mv (move command).
But the rename command in a zsh shell can also be used to move a file to a new location at the same time.

In "Users/richmond/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/" ALL I have is a file called "update.log"

I suspected as much, because you've confused it somewhat now.

You can come over here and 'bash' me on the head if you want, but my brain is already so numb I cannot for the life of me work out what is the difference between 'bash', 'ZSH', or even 'WTF'.

Bash and ZSH are different sets of terminal commands. Apple changed it (again, without consultation from anyone) to use ZSH - which will mess any bash scripts up.
But! - That's why there's what's called a shebang at the start of the script.
The #!/bin/bash tells the terminal to use bash.

It might be 'not a bad thing', instead of doing this type of upgrading, that requires computer mages to effect, to issue, say OXT Lite version 1.0.1.1.

Well, until then you'll just have to toggle the message box with cmd M a few times to get it to appear, and your save as will be "wonky".
Again, I'll come back to what I said before about why I wanted this to be an automated process which just pops up an authentication dialog and does all this for you.

Anyway, these fixes will be in 1.02, eventually. Another 700MB+ download for MacOS! When I can pluck up the enthusiasm to turn a MacOS machine on again.

[richmond62]

My /Users/richmond/Libraries/Preferences/ contains all sorts of entertaining folders, among which are:

MetaCard (How that got on a computer which started life at MacOS 10.13 I wonder): empty

OpenXTalk: file: openxtalk7.rev (that names comes across and a bit schizophrenic)

RunRev: file: livecode7.rev

xTalk: file: openxtalk7, and 2 folders:

LcTinyDict: 2 files: tinyDictNotes.array, and tinyPrefs.txt

updatecache: file: update.log

[tperry2x]

I know you have lots of versions of OpenXTalk that you test, so that's quite possible.
The rev files are from the preferences, as it stores them in legacy 'rev' format. Not much I can do about that.

It always puts a [name of program]"7.rev" on the end as default.
That makes sense why you'd then have a livecode7.rev and openxtalk7.rev file.

The rest makes sense, as it's settings the dictionary uses and other preferences from other versions of OXT.

If you've loaded any extensions into Livecode / OXT on that machine, it also would create a metacard folder (because the code is still in there to look in this folder for extensions), from when LC grabbed it from Metacard I'd assume, so there's a few instances where this could be created.

The update.log should tell you what was downloaded by the updater. This is read in by the updater in OXT, so when you click on the "show changed files" on the updater window, it reads this and tells you what was successfully downloaded.

As I say, I think you've confused it now, because it'll probably think it's at the right version, but whether the files are actually in the right place is anyone's guess.

The good news though, is you can put all this right fairly easily.
If you still have the dmg for 1.01, copy that out and delete the "OpenXTalk Lite.app" one where your update went wrong. All the files are changed in this ".app", so deleting it means you can try the update afresh.
If you don't have the dmg anymore, you'll of course need to download it again.

I'd also recommend deleting the "xTalk_IDE_update.sh" on your desktop if that's still there, just so we can be sure you are starting afresh with everything.

Before you do anything, open Terminal and switch the shell over from using ZSH back to Bash.

If you are unsure, this command would do it:

Code: Select all

chsh -s /bin/bash

Or you can poke around in the preferences to do it....

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Launch OpenXTalk Lite again, Run the update again and have another go.
First, opening terminal - check the window title to confirm you are in bash - not in zsh.
Don't forget to su & return first so you have elevated permissions.
Open the sh file on your desktop that was automatically created by the updater in a text editor. NOT by double clicking it.

Select all that text and copy.
Before you get any further - as in, before you run any of it in the terminal - could you please paste it into a comment on here, just so I can double check MacOS isn't doing something 'funky' with it.

It's not a hard process, providing MacOS doesn't try and mess with the commands reinterpreting them to zsh equivalents. This is why I want to check first to see what it's done.

Edit: Step by step walk through, just in case:

To make life easier (just in case I'm busy tomorrow - which will probably be the case), I've just tested what the output of the update should be under MacOS.

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Here it is in text form too:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#start update script, must be run as admin / sudo
sudo mv -f '/Users/user/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revmessagebox.8.rev' '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/message box/'
sudo rm -f '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo touch '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo chmod 766 '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo echo '202403042130' >> '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sudo rm -f '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo touch '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo chmod 766 '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sudo echo '1.01' >> '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
#end of update

It should look something like the above. Obviously the username "User" should show your username. Here, I have OpenXTalk Lite installed in /Applications/ but yours may look different, depending on wherever you put OpenXTalk Lite on your computer.

So, knowing that's right - I can open Terminal.
Here, you can see a message in the terminal that Apple want to force ZSH on me, but you can also see the title of the window shows "bash", which is what I'm using:

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So, before I do anything else - lets get elevated permissions in the terminal. (Not always strictly necessary, but ensures we have write access to the folders we need). To do this:

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Code: Select all

su
[returnkey]
your password
[returnkey]

You can see the "user$" prompt has disappeared on line 3 of the last screenshot (it now just says "sh-3.2#" (no user$) - that's because I now have elevated permissions.

Now, select all and copy all the text from the sh file you opened in your text editor...
and paste into the terminal (press return at the end, just to make sure you've confirmed you are running it)
Side-by-side screenshot of me doing exactly that: (terminal on the left, textedit on the right)

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Here's a text output of what I pasted into the terminal, for comparison on what you might be seeing:

Code: Select all

sh-3.2# #!/bin/sh
sh-3.2# #start update script, must be run as admin / sudo
sh-3.2# sudo mv -f '/Users/user/Library/Preferences/xtalk/updatecache/revmessagebox.8.rev' '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/message box/'
sh-3.2# sudo rm -f '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sh-3.2# sudo touch '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sh-3.2# sudo chmod 766 '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sh-3.2# sudo echo '202403042130' >> '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.buildnumber'
sh-3.2# sudo rm -f '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sh-3.2# sudo touch '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sh-3.2# sudo chmod 766 '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sh-3.2# sudo echo '1.01' >> '/Applications/OpenXTalk Lite.app/Contents/Tools/.version'
sh-3.2# #end of update
sh-3.2# 

As you can see, there should be only mv -f (move command), no mention of "move: rename" or anything - if you see that, you've not changed the terminal from ZSH to bash correctly. (I'll try and combat this in future, so it forces it into a bash shell I suppose).... anyway:

Now start OpenXTalk Lite, and go to the Help menu > IDE Information. This takes you to build "202403042130"... and you'll have a message box again, so that's good...

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But, wait... There's more.

Now that all went swimmingly, (wasn't too painful was it?)
Can you do it all again?
If you do the second update, just the same way you did the first, then this will fix your "save as" issue you mentioned, and it'll take you to build:

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Honestly, I've made it all look a lot harder than it actually is - just because I've detailed every small step here I can think of. The actual process takes less than 3 minutes per update.

[richmond62]

Saturday morning will be upon me sooner than I want it to be.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

Honestly guys I wasn't JUST playing around with SVG Palettes and Extension Builder CoreImage 'cruft', I did do a bunch of changes to the IDE along the way too.

One difference is that (IIRC, I'll check it when I get home), I changed that to read 'save as... ''Stack'' rather than OpenXTalk Stack, sticking with unbranded rather than rebranded, the other choices where renamed like 'Legacy Stack v.X

I get that, and it is very much appreciated. Likewise, if I ever do something in the lite version that you want to borrow - then equally feel free. However, please don't take this the wrong way, there's a lot added in OXT RCx versions that I don't want to necessarily bring across.

That's not to denegrate any of your work at all. What I mean by that is that if the lite version of OXT is a lite version, not the 'full fat' version of RCx (with additional features), then I don't necessarily want to pull something across that OXT lite won't have the hooks in place for. (I kind of ended up with this when I borrowed code from your revMenubar from the RC4 version - as I now have all these various size options when creating a new stack. Not entirely a bad thing, but a totally unexpected and undocumented thing I didn't intend to happen because it wasn't commented anywhere).

Doing a diff-compare isn't ideal in all honesty. It would be better (easier) if you have a record of simply what lines you've changed and where. It also helps to reconstruct things for anyone else following along with the project. I know this is in github probably, but if you don't want to use github... (because you can't get on with it - like me), then simple comments as to when something is changed work wonders, rather than having to run through a huge list of dif-compare for two files (assuming you can guess at what files are changed).

I'm not trying to tell you how to organise your changes - everyone has a different way of working. Personally I keep a manual running history of the changes, detailing what I've changed, when, where and why. It helps me in the long run and stops me forgetting where to look for something in future.

It also means if I want to move all my changes from say, dropbox to mega, to some version control system in future (such as fossil which I'm looking into), - I've got a record of it.

You might not need / want to go to those extremes, but just a text list saying:
01-01-24 - "changed line x of file "y.livecodescript" to fix issue z"
would be brilliant.

This link here shows you where every change from the last develop branch of LiveCode Community that I've pushed to the repo, most of them have comments too. Some of the ones that are not comment are the ones where I was just rearranging file structure in the repo and docs un-branding, particularly early on in the list.
You can see when I pushed the first change, a week after LiveCode Ltd. stopped supporting the Community Edition, 'updated splash screen'
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-id ... op-1.963.1

You can get this list with a the Web from the first page of the Repo:

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Then you can click on a commit and see what changes, and filenames of files where files changed. Changes won't be viewable if it's a binary stack (which is why the LC folks did a LOT of converting ld IDE stacks to UI stack + Behavior Script-only stacks).

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And it looks like here is the change to the Save Stack popup (also from Sept. 2021):
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-id ... 7a9ed84375
Copied the IDE relative file path from that link (pasteboard icon):
IDE Bundle/Contents/Tools/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript

Certainly it takes some learning to use, but I think any version control system you try to use is going to have similar curve, and may not have the extra options of having a GUI client (I use GitDesktop.app) or as useful of a Web Interface. I looked at Fossil (and others). I'm Mac guy, so not a fan of typing at the command line (or any other unnecessary typing). I would much rather have a nice GUI.

That said I do still try to remember to put some in-line comments in the code, probably not as much as I should.
Mostly changes have mentioned here in the forums. In the beginning I was trying to do weekly status reports, but that was too time consuming because I was responding to criticisms and suggestions a lot (which isn't a bad thing but it is time consuming). And I also got bad at keeping GitHub in sync for a while, mostly because I was working from multiple locations which was causing conflicts between the separate cached copies of the repo. But over all I've come to like GitHub now that I'm a little bit more familiar with it.

[tperry2x]

Um,... I'm really sorry Paul. I followed that link, but whereabouts is it in that file?
I think I found the right bit in github, but it's not evident what part was changed?
I'm staring at it, but just can't see what bit you added

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Was it line 7103, 7395, and 7875 to 7877, also line 7901, 7904, 7907, 7910 and 7913?
Or was that a different change where you were removing the word "livecode"?

I'm probably reading it incorrectly, or suspect I'm interpreting it wrong somehow.

This is partly why I kept Livecode and OpenXTalk in on my version. I know we are after de-branding, but as these are file formats - removing the names might be confusing as they don't change when the name of the IDE changes. The formats are the same type is what I mean.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

Um,... I'm really sorry Paul. I followed that link, but whereabouts is it in that file?
I think I found the right bit in github, but it's not evident what part was changed?
I'm staring at it, but just can't see what bit you added
Screenshot 2024-03-08 at 22.03.12.png

No need to be sorry.

Maybe this will help:

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