Learning/Problems from across the way #1
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- richmond62
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Learning/Problems from across the way #1
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=39009
This concerns a problem to do with MacOS users with non-English 'somethings' (whether physical keyboards, OS versions, or keyboard layouts is unclear) NOT getting the '=' sign when the press the '=' key on the numberpad to the right of most keyboards.
It 100% must also affect OXT at this stage of development so deserves our full attention.
This concerns a problem to do with MacOS users with non-English 'somethings' (whether physical keyboards, OS versions, or keyboard layouts is unclear) NOT getting the '=' sign when the press the '=' key on the numberpad to the right of most keyboards.
It 100% must also affect OXT at this stage of development so deserves our full attention.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- richmond62
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
In what my wife calls "Your hole", here at home are the number pads of the 2 keyboards currently connected to computers:
- US layout.
- Combined US & Arabic layout.
-
You should be able to see that they BOTH have '=' keys beneath the volume increase key.
- US layout.
- Combined US & Arabic layout.
-
You should be able to see that they BOTH have '=' keys beneath the volume increase key.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- tperry2x
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
The key above your 7, which is your num lock key - going to the right, I have
/
*
-
...on a UK keyboard, I only have one = key. Do you have two = keys then? What key does the OP get in LC (and I assume also OXT) if they were to press it?
(I can't read the original post as it's asking for a login, which I don't have)
Irrespective of all of that though.
If LC / OXT won't pick up on the numpad = key, I wonder what the raw key down signal it receives is when this key is pressed? This is why I ask, as I'd of expected the raw key to be identified as 61 (which should be the same?) - I've added this livecodestack for them to test, if they want. I wonder what the rawkey number they get with their numpad = would be?
/
*
-
...on a UK keyboard, I only have one = key. Do you have two = keys then? What key does the OP get in LC (and I assume also OXT) if they were to press it?
(I can't read the original post as it's asking for a login, which I don't have)
Irrespective of all of that though.
If LC / OXT won't pick up on the numpad = key, I wonder what the raw key down signal it receives is when this key is pressed? This is why I ask, as I'd of expected the raw key to be identified as 61 (which should be the same?) - I've added this livecodestack for them to test, if they want. I wonder what the rawkey number they get with their numpad = would be?
- richmond62
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
The ,=, key on a 'standard' 109 key Mac keyboard has a rawKey number of 65469, which is the Unicode address for a Korean Hangul glyph 'ᄑ', and either the OS, or each application/program does some sort of 'magic' to deliver a '='.
Now, to be really snobbish; your keyboard is a non-Mac "cheap-n-nasty":
- -
One I found on a Bulgarian website . . .
Which, as you can see, has fewer rows of keys on its number pad than a Mac one.
Older Mac keyboards (like the ones I use) have 3 volume control keys and a CD eject key along the top, newer ones, such as the 'magic' one, has additional F keys there:
- -
The 'magic' keyboard has been specially designed so that it is hard to see what is written on the keys.
I have one of these keyboards "somewhere", that someone gave me, just in case all my keyboards suddenly go 'poof' simultaneously.
Now, to be really snobbish; your keyboard is a non-Mac "cheap-n-nasty":
- -
One I found on a Bulgarian website . . .
Which, as you can see, has fewer rows of keys on its number pad than a Mac one.
Older Mac keyboards (like the ones I use) have 3 volume control keys and a CD eject key along the top, newer ones, such as the 'magic' one, has additional F keys there:
- -
The 'magic' keyboard has been specially designed so that it is hard to see what is written on the keys.
![Cool 8-)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
I have one of these keyboards "somewhere", that someone gave me, just in case all my keyboards suddenly go 'poof' simultaneously.
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- richmond62
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
Most generic number pads also do NOT have an '=' key, which strikes me as a bit daft:
- -
- -
https://richmondmathewson.owlstown.net/
- tperry2x
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
Well, not an Apple one you mean. Yes, non mac. Like 99% of computers at my workplace. 412 of them use non-mac keyboards... being non-macsrichmond62 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:17 pm Now, to be really snobbish; your keyboard is a non-Mac "cheap-n-nasty":
crapKB.jpg
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Cheap and nasty, that one in the pic. Yes maybe. But there are plenty here with interchangeable keysets around, that definitely aren't "cheap and nasty" without the extra Apple accessories (read: jewellery / accoutrements) stuck on for good measure.
A standard (non-mac) keyboard, that the majority of people may be using, without extra 'bells and whistles' is perhaps more 'the normal'.
I was simply interested in knowing what the raw key number is interpreted as, to help diagnose the problem. (Keyboard snobbery or personal preferences aside: that doesn't matter). You could have an ergonomic keyboard that looks like it's spent it's life draped over a radiator, however doesn't matter. What matters are how the keys are identified.
- richmond62
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
I feel sorry for you as you are obviously not into Looksmaxxing, which with computery people begins, of course, with a gold-plated Mac Studio, and a PROPER keyboard with a '=' on the number pad:
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[removed unrelated picture of paris hilton]
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[removed unrelated picture of paris hilton]
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- tperry2x
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
It's all window dressing, isn't it. See point above.
(I think you may have a Paris Hilton obsession
, as you did the same here too)
(I think you may have a Paris Hilton obsession
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
- richmond62
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
Absolutely: especially as I don't think that after 25 years of using this keyboard (! Apple products USED TO BE robust !) I had never really noticed the '=' key on the number pad until the OP across the way asked the question about it.It's all window dressing, isn't it. See point above.
![Cool 8-)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
But, then, I use a spade to dig my garden, NOT a rotavator.
Right: that's enough: off to do some 'mewing' to improve my jawline . . . LOL
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- tperry2x
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
So are we any closer to knowing what the raw key number of the offending = key is reported as, for the OP?
Or are we assuming it's 65469?
I'm assuming it's not, as you get an = char with keycode 65469. If they don't see a = (which I don't know as can't view the original post), then I'd be interested to know what raw keycode number they get.
If not, then I shan't worry about it. Can't support every keyboard / layout / language - and I suppose as xTalk is not multi-lingual, probably don't have to worry too much about it.
Or are we assuming it's 65469?
I'm assuming it's not, as you get an = char with keycode 65469. If they don't see a = (which I don't know as can't view the original post), then I'd be interested to know what raw keycode number they get.
If not, then I shan't worry about it. Can't support every keyboard / layout / language - and I suppose as xTalk is not multi-lingual, probably don't have to worry too much about it.
- OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
HAH ha! @"Your hole" That's what my wife calls my basement lair filled with vintage gear toorichmond62 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:55 pm In what my wife calls "Your hole", here at home are the number pads of the 2 keyboards currently connected to computers:
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Those appear to be Apple's old full size keyboards with the volume and eject keys above the num pad, I have a bunch of those, even a 'Bondi Blue" (in the US versions of course). I'll have to look into this.
- OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
Code: Select all
put numToCodePoint (65469)
I imagine these numbers are based on some sort of industry standard numbering, scan codes? It's not entirely clear what these larger rawKey numbers, the ones beyond the ASCII set, were assigned based on?
I'm on a modern Mac extended US keyboard right now and there is no "=" key in the numpad section, top row is 'clear / * -' with 'zoom in, zoom out, force quit, and power' buttons mini-keys above the numpads. No '=' key.
Usually I use numpad with 'enter' key and only in calculator sort of context, I never use it when writing scripts.
- OpenXTalkPaul
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Re: Learning/Problems from across the way #1
I'm still not sure what these rawKey numbers are actually based on? I mean these larger numbers that get returned, beyond the base ASCII set of characters. Are they standards keyboard 'scan codes' based? Or 'virtual key codes'''? Based on some extended character encoding number set such as classic Mac Roman? When I check these numbers against various lists, I can't make these numbers in the 6500s range match any of the numberings I've found in various lists of keyboard scan codes and the like.
Here's a PDF of a list of these numbers returned from rawKeyDown . that I had collected at one poin, produced by a newer Aluminum Apple US Keyboard :
https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/LiveCo ... 0CODES.pdf
I image this issue with international keyboards not placing the '=' character could be easy to work-around by adding to main stack script a rawKeyDown script which translates / forwards it as the desired character like so:
Here's a PDF of a list of these numbers returned from rawKeyDown . that I had collected at one poin, produced by a newer Aluminum Apple US Keyboard :
https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/LiveCo ... 0CODES.pdf
I image this issue with international keyboards not placing the '=' character could be easy to work-around by adding to main stack script a rawKeyDown script which translates / forwards it as the desired character like so:
Code: Select all
on rawKeyDown pKey
if pKey is 65469 then
send "keyDown =" to the focusedControl
else
pass rawKeyDown
end if
end rawKeyDown
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